tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8358039.post4985916689669318835..comments2024-03-25T15:17:04.488-07:00Comments on Captain Capitalism: I Finally Figured Out BitcoinCaptain Capitalismhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05620212946121617985noreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8358039.post-67439016226980149882014-06-22T04:22:55.093-07:002014-06-22T04:22:55.093-07:00I'm a little bit surprised to see so many inte...I'm a little bit surprised to see so many intelligent people comment on bitcoin and not one single comment has hit the mark. #1 Bitcoin is here to stay regardless of future or current competition. #2 Governments are unable to do away with Bitcoin even if they wanted to. #3 21 million bitcoins is the total number of bitcoins that will ever exist. So once the fluctuating value subsides Bitcoin will maintain a relatively stable value. #4 This value will slow down it's growth as high risk investors subside but the value will continue upward IF (likely) people and merchants continue to accept bitcoin. The number one value addition to Bitcoin will come when people are confident enough in the coin to HOLD them the same as they would hold any other currency and merchants are not afraid to accept them as the ONLY form of payment. #5 What if all 21m bitcoins were in existence and held by 21m people. 1 each. Each of them makeing purchases from one another in one form or another. Ask yourself what would cause the value to fluctuate at all in relation to any other currency? Nothing would, other than some trying to hog up and hold all the bitcoins. The value in relation to a dollar would increase ever so greatly based upon the amount of bitcoin earners winning the horders game. Then they could lend bitcoins to those without and charge an interest etc. All of that is just fine as long as the people spending bitcoins are also earning there income in bitcoins. If they earn $1000 a week in USD cash and a bitcoin value went from $500 to <br />$1000 they'd be screwed. If they earned 2 bitcoins per week when cash lost half its value they would be OK. SO as we see in this example Bitcoin is here to stay and the IRS has "rightfully" classified it as property.<br />Bitcoin can go nowhere but up. And believe it or not a transaction has the ability to carry an advertrisement or subscription etc along the block chain. Look out Google. lol<br />fkthepleecehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17585290485351875755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8358039.post-38715773080133464382014-01-05T23:07:59.993-08:002014-01-05T23:07:59.993-08:00Although a simple question, "What gives Bitco...Although a simple question, "What gives Bitcoin value?", the answer is not as simple as the question. What gives Bitcoin it’s value, can best be answer by the formula <br /><br />PB = (SW + TX) / BC<br /><br />The value of a Bitcoin is derived from the total value of the Bitcoin used for storage of wealth (SW) plus the total amount of the Bitcoin required for concurrently transacting in it (TX). The sum of these two numbers divided by the amount of Bitcoins in circulation (BC) (currently 12.2 million, ultimately 21 million), will give you the price of Bitcoin (PB).<br /><br />There are estimates of the total amount of gold in existence (mined) in the $10-13 Trillion range. If $1 Trillion (10%) of the amount of wealth that would have gone into gold, instead lands in Bitcoin, that would increase the price of Bitcoin to ($1Trillion + TX) / 12.2 million, or by $83,000 per Bitcoin. Remember, this leaves out the TX component, which will further increase the price of Bitcoin. Over time, funds will shift from other asset classes being used for wealth storage to Bitcoin.<br /><br />There are many advantages to storing wealth in Bitcoin as opposed to specifically gold, for example, as you can divide Bitcoin into very tiny pieces (difficult with gold) and you can send Bitcoin to someone on the other side of the planet within minutes (impossible with physical gold). These use cases illustrate why Bitcoin is a good alternative for gold (and other assets) for storage of wealth.<br /><br />From a transaction perspective, as more citizens, businesses, and governments transact in Bitcoin, the amount of ‘wealth’ that must be placed into Bitcoin must be large enough to allow these transactions to happen. <br /><br />For example, if it becomes common place for real-estate purchase payments to be processed via Bitcoin, then the amount of value in Bitcoin required to allow this to happen will need to be as large as the current working set of real estate transactions in progress. This logic applies to online sales and brick and mortar sales. If, on a daily basis, $250 Billion is required to allow all Bitcoin transactions to occur, the Bitcoin price only in terms of TX requirements, is $20,500. <br /><br />The price of Bitcoin (PB) = (SW + TX) / BC. SW and TX will both change as time passes. In geek terms, SW, TX, and BC are functions of time f(t). Therefore to more accurately predict the price of Bitcoin, you need to estimate these two components for a given time, and then divide by the number of Bitcoins in circulation. BC can easily be obtained from many websites and is updated live.<br /><br />Bitcoin works well as a storage of value and for financial transactions, therefore it will often be used as a substitute for both currency as well as common wealth storage assets (e.g., gold). Bitcoins utility (global register – the block chain) is what makes this possible. The worth of Bitcoin comes into play because of this utility, wealth storage and transactions will happen ontop of this platform. And using the formula above, the price of Bitcoin (PB) can be computed by estimates of these two quantities. Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02414756647197016614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8358039.post-29304295681561301662014-01-05T23:07:20.584-08:002014-01-05T23:07:20.584-08:00Although a simple question, "What gives Bitco...Although a simple question, "What gives Bitcoin value?", the answer is not as simple as the question. What gives Bitcoin it’s value, can best be answer by the formula <br /><br />PB = (SW + TX) / BC<br /><br />The value of a Bitcoin is derived from the total value of the Bitcoin used for storage of wealth (SW) plus the total amount of the Bitcoin required for concurrently transacting in it (TX). The sum of these two numbers divided by the amount of Bitcoins in circulation (BC) (currently 12.2 million, ultimately 21 million), will give you the price of Bitcoin (PB).<br /><br />There are estimates of the total amount of gold in existence (mined) in the $10-13 Trillion range. If $1 Trillion (10%) of the amount of wealth that would have gone into gold, instead lands in Bitcoin, that would increase the price of Bitcoin to ($1Trillion + TX) / 12.2 million, or by $83,000 per Bitcoin. Remember, this leaves out the TX component, which will further increase the price of Bitcoin. Over time, funds will shift from other asset classes being used for wealth storage to Bitcoin.<br /><br />There are many advantages to storing wealth in Bitcoin as opposed to specifically gold, for example, as you can divide Bitcoin into very tiny pieces (difficult with gold) and you can send Bitcoin to someone on the other side of the planet within minutes (impossible with physical gold). These use cases illustrate why Bitcoin is a good alternative for gold (and other assets) for storage of wealth.<br /><br />From a transaction perspective, as more citizens, businesses, and governments transact in Bitcoin, the amount of ‘wealth’ that must be placed into Bitcoin must be large enough to allow these transactions to happen. <br /><br />For example, if it becomes common place for real-estate purchase payments to be processed via Bitcoin, then the amount of value in Bitcoin required to allow this to happen will need to be as large as the current working set of real estate transactions in progress. This logic applies to online sales and brick and mortar sales. If, on a daily basis, $250 Billion is required to allow all Bitcoin transactions to occur, the Bitcoin price only in terms of TX requirements, is $20,500. <br /><br />The price of Bitcoin (PB) = (SW + TX) / BC. SW and TX will both change as time passes. In geek terms, SW, TX, and BC are functions of time f(t). Therefore to more accurately predict the price of Bitcoin, you need to estimate these two components for a given time, and then divide by the number of Bitcoins in circulation. BC can easily be obtained from many websites and is updated live.<br /><br />Bitcoin works well as a storage of value and for financial transactions, therefore it will often be used as a substitute for both currency as well as common wealth storage assets (e.g., gold). Bitcoins utility (global register – the block chain) is what makes this possible. The worth of Bitcoin comes into play because of this utility, wealth storage and transactions will happen ontop of this platform. And using the formula above, the price of Bitcoin (PB) can be computed by estimates of these two quantities. Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02414756647197016614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8358039.post-59703104313091338712013-12-09T11:39:34.800-08:002013-12-09T11:39:34.800-08:00Frederick Soddy said it best: "Money now is ...Frederick Soddy said it best: "Money now is the nothing you get for something before you can get anything."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8358039.post-15408179330033486562013-11-23T06:13:38.131-08:002013-11-23T06:13:38.131-08:00You almost got it. It's not just scarcity.
B...You almost got it. It's not just scarcity.<br /><br />Bitcoin can be moved freely. <br /><br />Scarce. Fast and Free Moving.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8358039.post-68790371918475600052013-11-15T07:57:49.419-08:002013-11-15T07:57:49.419-08:00Anonymous:
You are quibbling over minutia. I'...Anonymous:<br /><br />You are quibbling over minutia. I'm not impressed.<br /><br /><br />Gold is still valuable enough to most people for the "intrinsic" claim to be only a slight exaggeration. Yes, their are still tribals living in the middle of nowhere who still consider it a pretty yellow ornament metal. These folks are kinda rare these days.<br /><br />Castaways still value gold ... they just value food and rescue more in their current situation.Kristophrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08370888276707569365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8358039.post-38144190388515005982013-11-13T11:57:09.346-08:002013-11-13T11:57:09.346-08:00In order to work, a currency has to be broadly acc...In order to work, a currency has to be broadly acceptable to people, which means that it has to represent value in simple terms of human effort.<br /><br />Gold makes great money. <br /><br />It's almost perfectly fungible, and it's incorruptible. People say it has little intrinsic value, but that's not entirely true: anyone who has ever had the chance to handle a 40 Kg bar of gold will tell you how startlingly heavy, incorruptible, beautiful and desirable it is. It has a natural attraction for humans, plus it's incredibly difficult to produce - so it's easy to understand the correlation of value to human effort.<br /><br />Money is a physical expression of toil. Every ounce of gold represents a full day's worth of human toil (to say nothing of all of the apparatus required), and the fact that all this effort distilled into something that's physically beautiful makes it easy to understand why it was adopted as a currency.<br /><br />Paper money only works because people trust the state that issues it. Like gold, paper money is representative of toil, only in this case it is backed (theoretically) by collective value of an entire nation's GDP. This is why it's such a terrible betrayal when the government of a state abuses its currency.<br /><br />In both cases, these things work as money because their value is relatable to human effort. The phrase "a dollar a day" didn't come from thin air, since when the currency was conceived the intention was that the dollar should represent that amount of value.<br /><br />I've come to believe that this is perhaps the most important quality of money.<br /><br />Ideally, money should be:<br /><br />- intrinsically valuable<br />- immutable and permanent<br />- anonymous<br />- fungible<br />- easily understood in terms of ordinary human effort. eg: an ounce of gold takes a full person-day of effort to produce.<br /><br />if it's intrinsically desirable, that's just a bonus.<br /><br />Bitcoin smells to me like a private credit exchange built on top of a pyramid scam. There's no human effort in the system, and the top-down control of inflation and scarcity, (set in advance like the parameters in a computer game) disconnect it entirely from any economic reality.<br /><br />Honest to God, I have no idea who's trading it and why. If I was an economist, this would really freak me out.<br /><br />As it is, all I can say is "buy gold (and silver) instead".<br /><br />Bitcoin might enjoy a healthy life as an anonymizing exchange platform, but I don't think any smart people will "hold" it as a currency.<br /><br />Christopher Iveynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8358039.post-32880570019992361752013-11-12T22:37:05.468-08:002013-11-12T22:37:05.468-08:00"Intrinsic Value - The currency must have som..."Intrinsic Value - The currency must have some kind of real value."<br /><br />The Austrian school of economics, the school most vaunted by Libertarians, stipulates that there is no such thing as intrinsic value. Even with Gold and salt.<br /><br />Value is always subjective and always relative. What intrinsic value did the salvaged gold brought to the castaways of the Nuestra Seňora de la Concepción ?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8358039.post-40644943795068209402013-11-12T22:03:28.285-08:002013-11-12T22:03:28.285-08:00Here is a critique of Denninger's post on Bitc...Here is a critique of Denninger's post on Bitcoin by an equally competent writer named Jon Matonis:<br /><br />http://www.financialsense.com/contributors/jon-matonis/bitcoin-obliterates-state-theory-of-money&quotAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8358039.post-90311056348033099002013-11-12T20:46:37.152-08:002013-11-12T20:46:37.152-08:00Another weakness: some entity could destroy or cri...Another weakness: some entity could destroy or cripple bitcoin with a virus.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8358039.post-72246293370545901472013-11-12T13:49:55.963-08:002013-11-12T13:49:55.963-08:00Is HTTP valuable? Is TCP/IP? Protocols allow for i...Is HTTP valuable? Is TCP/IP? Protocols allow for infrastructure to be built on top of them. All Bitcoin is, is a protocol. And with protocols, the first mover usually wins. That's why the Friendsters, MySpaces, Facebooks of the world (even that's tough to replicate) can come and go. But how many HTTPS are there? How many TCP/IP? More reading: http://www.usv.com/posts/bitcoin-as-protocol<br /><br />The second question is, is decentralization valuable?<br /><br />Food for thought.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8358039.post-72391085727683858912013-11-12T11:32:54.019-08:002013-11-12T11:32:54.019-08:00One value unstated but inferred in this thread is ...One value unstated but inferred in this thread is that of bypassing the onerous practices of the current banking systems especially as pertaining to business and industry loans and microloans in emerging economies. For so long, the IMF et al, has used crushing debt to keep many countries in Eurpe, Africa and Asia in state of perpetual colonialism. Bitcoin and crypto-C in general could literally smash that model by providing frictionless currency for development and subsequent purchasing power with any/other forms of currency. Note that there is a race for resources in Africa in particular and it's heating up because China is playing hard and fast. China is also (with some initial hiccups) betting rather largely on BTC., Baidu's acceptance of same being only the start. I can see some of those BTC finding their way to Africa to pay for resources. Africa, South America (huge on BTC) and all emerging economies will set the value of Btcoin. The US and most fo Europe are about to get left in the dust. Oh, Russia likes BTC also, as many of you know. BTC oligarchs...? ;)<br /><br />Also, someone here said that Google and Microsoft-branded BTC would provide a value-base for crypto. I AGREE, and I suggest to you all that we are entering an age of branded currency like that before the standardization of US money, UK pounds or the like. The idea of tacking BTC to share price is a tempting one as it seems cyclic in it's ability to increase shareholder value AND be spent of affiliate goods. So, even if sales are down, if the branded BTC is being spent on, say, sneakers or other tangentally-related affiliate products other than the company's, the currency is hel dup and the share prices are not adversely affected. I'm interested in anyone's thoughts on same.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8358039.post-67919854551990688102013-11-12T08:08:44.942-08:002013-11-12T08:08:44.942-08:00"money" is something with intrinsic valu..."money" is something with intrinsic value, like gold, or silver.<br /><br />"currency" is a claim ticket for something with intrinsic value, like pre-federal reserve dollars.<br /><br />Post-federal reserve dollars are fiat ( command ) currency, like Soviet Union rubles. All fiat currencies eventually go to zero value. All of them.<br /><br />Bit-coins are unique in that they cannot be created out of thin air like fiat currency.<br /><br />But because they are not intrinsically valuable, they are not money, and because they are not claim tickets for real money, they are not currency. And since no government requires their use, they are not fiat currency.<br /><br />Bitcoins are like alpacas, llamas, nutrias, and Dutch tulips. They are a fad. When everyone who was convinced to want them has them, their value will crash.Kristophrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08370888276707569365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8358039.post-64098979382135613842013-11-12T06:40:28.588-08:002013-11-12T06:40:28.588-08:00One thing Bitcoin showed that there is a demand fo...One thing Bitcoin showed that there is a demand for a private way or currency or whatever you want to call it to do business without the government butting in.<br /><br />The government's crackdown and propaganda on Bitcoin and other private money like Liberty Dollar clearly shows we are a not a free people and it is all about control to the detriment of majority.sth_txsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8358039.post-86631930809105151262013-11-12T04:57:29.697-08:002013-11-12T04:57:29.697-08:00Agree with you Captain - the govt(s) will shut it ...Agree with you Captain - the govt(s) will shut it down when it becomes a threat.<br /><br />Any idea why they chose gold as the bitcoin logo color?Karlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00097451556633262624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8358039.post-19954346335744513862013-11-12T03:08:03.948-08:002013-11-12T03:08:03.948-08:001) Not entirely true. Because bitcoin is effective...1) Not entirely true. Because bitcoin is effectively numbers, they can still be traded without the internet. In fact you could print them onto physical paper and trade them that way. The transaction becomes too complicated a math problem for the average person to do with their hands, but realistically all you need is a computer and the transaction can still take place, it'll just take a lot longer to confirm your transaction with others. Literally, bitcoin or some other form of digital currency could exist with jump drives and smart phones. Digital currency isn't going to die if just the internet goes down, it would have to be a near ELE to kill it.<br /><br />2) This is fact. However, there are many many many governments who poorly manipulate their fiat currencies for the benefit of their elite. All it takes is enough of the population of these countries to see the value in bitcoin (no hyperinflation), and suddenly you've got a worldwide currency that everyone accepts. <br /><br />3) Most definitely, the political-elite are trying to find ways to kill digital currencies. The problem here is that it's a P2P network, unless they literally want to unplug the internet, they cannot kill it. <br /><br />4) This is probably the most interesting aspect. Now that digital currencies exist, which one is "best" ?? Unless you're a best-in-the-world mathematician, economist, and historian, this question is probably a crapshoot.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8358039.post-60516260464683604412013-11-12T01:01:48.199-08:002013-11-12T01:01:48.199-08:00This is all very nice but it does nothing to answe...This is all very nice but it does nothing to answer the question "Should I invest in Bitcoins?" If I treat them as a high risk form of FOREX, isn't it the same as buying/sell gold? Is it a good investment right now or not?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8358039.post-52085060289249513862013-11-12T00:00:10.187-08:002013-11-12T00:00:10.187-08:00BTC looks like it has a lot of upside for a functi...BTC looks like it has a lot of upside for a functioning global economy, and as it is divisible (mu-BTC, anyone?) could supplant our effectively worthless fiat systems fast when the network effect takes hold. Any reason why the founders of a sound (non-inflatable) global digital currency shouldn't be well compensated for early adoption?<br />If I was the Rothschilds I'd be very very concerned. Why? Even if 99% of BTC was "confiscated" like Ulbricht's haul, the divisibility of BTC means the other 210K BTC's have the same divisibility, integrity-checking, they just moved up two magnitudes of order in scarcity and retain the utility as a means of exchange. So the only weak point is in their acceptance. A battle between the businesses (who want sound money and frictionless exchange) and the Banks, (who want money on Ctrl+P and a cut of everything) is going to come. MMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09560239044968809366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8358039.post-72625539710228360482013-11-11T22:57:55.940-08:002013-11-11T22:57:55.940-08:00Denninger did an excellent analysis of bitcoin sev...Denninger did an excellent analysis of bitcoin several months ago. And subsequent events have not yet proved him wrong. It's a bit long so I won't repeat here, but he believes bitcoin has a number of flaws in it that make it unacceptable for him to use. At this point in time, I tend to agree with him, it ain't all that...<br /><br />Link here:<br />http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?singlepost=3171400<br /><br />regards,<br />RAAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8358039.post-48616549056274363412013-11-11T22:12:51.913-08:002013-11-11T22:12:51.913-08:00Well gee, Captain, I could have told you that Bitc...Well gee, Captain, I could have told you that Bitcoin's intrinsic value is for convenient exchange.<br /><br /><br />Because the intrinsic value of bitcoin is actually less than that of a piece of paper, I think bitcoin makes for a better money! I mean better in the sense that, when bitcoin can be traded for other goods/services, it does so purely because of its value as an exchange medium. That is, the price of a bitcoin is more purely function of its exchange prospects, than for any other currency in history. For econometricians, bitcoin operates as a better measuring tool:<br /><br />1. The total supply is public knowledge.<br />2. The rate of mining (expansion of money supply) is public knowledge.<br />3. The entire transaction history is public knowledge and provides a wealth of computable information about velocity, network connectivity, etc.<br /><br />...<br /><br />Although bitcoin fails on the Intrinsic Value aspect of Aristotle’s attributes, it does possess what I’ll refer to as Extrinsic Value, giving it a mechanism for adoption. That is, in the same way that taxation and legal tender laws coerce the use of fiat currency, the desire to escape that same coercion motivates the use of crypto-currency. Bitcoin has secured a niche market in delivery of goods that government’s dislike, but which a laissez-faire market happily trades.<br /><br /><br /><a href="http://www.cogitolingua.net/blog/2013/04/20/the-commodity-money-myth/" rel="nofollow">The commodity money myth</a>Eric Henniganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00424164738639069896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8358039.post-74432178595596649392013-11-11T21:25:44.617-08:002013-11-11T21:25:44.617-08:00I understand bitcoin's value, and have done so...I understand bitcoin's value, and have done so sence it's inception. what this post clarifies for me is "why people think that hoarding gold makes sense". The logic is shaky" but there is some thought to it.<br /><br />However, if the point of currentcy is to avoid barter, then gold is still worthless to hoard, because in a SHTF collapse scenario, it will be barter that will rule the day. this is true even more so in a non-collapse scenario, as black markets will arise out of hyperinflated markets using state currency. better to store survival goods that have additional barter value then gold, IMO.<br />Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01596899792832175046noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8358039.post-62971779653192351812013-11-11T19:23:35.037-08:002013-11-11T19:23:35.037-08:00Can I use bitcoin to buy your books?Can I use bitcoin to buy your books?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8358039.post-90978223598460945002013-11-11T19:04:30.352-08:002013-11-11T19:04:30.352-08:00Bitcoin is a bubble...
There's the story of a...Bitcoin is a bubble...<br /><br />There's the story of a guy who bought $25 in 2010 or so, not long ago and had enough money to buy housing in an expensive city and still has money left over. Of course who knows when the bubble will burst.<br /><br />If you could've bought Apple stock 10 years ago, fabulous. But now? Where will it go????Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8358039.post-90982815823680775152013-11-11T18:38:23.014-08:002013-11-11T18:38:23.014-08:00You are getting your uses of value mixed up. An i...You are getting your uses of value mixed up. An intrinsic value is applicable to the true value of a company, vs it's market cap, what people are currently paying for a company. When talking about money (warehouse receipts backed by precious metals, fiat, digital), it has little use but a lot of exchange value. When talking about a commodity (water), it has a lot of use value but little exchange value. This is really what you are dealing with when talking about any currency vs commodity.TJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06106315618305079311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8358039.post-15154004529430975672013-11-11T15:01:59.801-08:002013-11-11T15:01:59.801-08:00First there was fractional reserve banking...
The...First there was fractional reserve banking...<br /><br />Then there was fractional reserve speed dating (as exposed by the Captain some time ago)...<br /><br />And now... Fractional Reserve Adultery: <br /><br />"Dating website for cheaters is sued for $20M by former employee who claims she had to type 1,000 'fake profiles' to lure in male customers"<br /><br />http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2500478/Dating-website-cheaters-sued-20M-employee-claims-type-1-000-fake-profiles-lure-male-customers.html<br /><br />Granted, there's a certain poetic justice, that adulterers got cheated. But still...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com