I don't think we're quite North Korea yet with our "wiped my own ass" medal or "breathing continually for 10 years" medal, but still the reflections are a bit concerning:
Friday, July 03, 2009
Outcome Based Military
I kind of feel ashamed that the US military, which I view as one of the most holy institutions in the history of the world, is guilty of this:
I don't think we're quite North Korea yet with our "wiped my own ass" medal or "breathing continually for 10 years" medal, but still the reflections are a bit concerning:
I don't think we're quite North Korea yet with our "wiped my own ass" medal or "breathing continually for 10 years" medal, but still the reflections are a bit concerning:
1. The Marines don't wear as many medals.
ReplyDelete2. Think about Gen. Schwartzkopf in his desert uniform. How often did general officers in the olden days were fatigues or combat uniforms? Their everyday uniforms were what we would consider today to be dress uniforms. You wouldn't wear all your medals on your everyday uniform, but if it were a special dress occasion, then maybe you would.
Tell that to Peter Pace.
ReplyDeleteAt least the plastic/metal tabs/tags are fairly unobtrusive.
It's true, you yanks go overboard with that stuff. I served 10 years with the Canadian military and only got one medal. On the other hand, I worked with your troops in Florida for two weeks, and got an American medal for good shooting.
ReplyDeleteHere marksmanship is considered a pre-requisite for keeping your job - in the US it's apparently something deserving medals.
Not that I didn't appreciate the gesture (I've kept the medal, even though I can't wear it), but c'mon ... that's a bit silly. Medals should be awarded for tours of duty and exemplary performance or bravery, not for putting some bullets into an inanimate target. Our soldiers like to joke that Yanks get 3 medals before completing basic - one for shooting, one for tying their boots, and one for brushing their teeth. The sad thing is, it's almost true.
Captain,
ReplyDeleteThe person who wrote that article is a dumbass who knows nothing about the military or military history.
First of all, back then it wasn't required that you wear "all or none" or, in the case of the Navy, "the highest few" like we have nowadays. Eisenhower and Nimitz had dozens and dozens of medals. Additionally, many of those medals had not been authorized by Congress to be worn on the uniform at that time and, thus, they didn't wear them.
Secondly, the U.S. has conducted dozens and dozens of operations over the past 50 years that has created a whole host of campaign medals.
Finally, medals have become integral parts of the promotion system and their significance is lower than what they used to be back in that time period. That's why Achievement, Commendation, Meritorious Service, Legion of Merit, etc. medals were created. Also, we have numerous ribbons, that aren't as weighty as medals in the grand scheme of things, that are used to denote things that were once worn on the uniform in the form of badges, like expert marskman or years of service bars.
As for the idiotic comment that Marines don't wear as many medals, has he looked at 1/10 of the Marine Corps general pictures? How about Gen. Mattis here:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/ff/Gen_James_N._Mattis.jpg
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ReplyDelete"Idiotic" commenter back again.
ReplyDeleteWith respect to the picture of General Pace, please see my comment regarding "special dress occasion."
With respect to "1/10 of the Marine Corps general pictures," I stand by my comment as it applies to the Marine Corps as a whole. Now, to the extent that the article talks about "senior U.S. military officers," then it is a fair rebuttal to say that Marine generals wear a lot of medals. But when the article talks about lieutenants having more medals than Ike on D-Day, it is fair to discuss the service as a whole.
And no, I am not a Marine.
Finally, the Army has clamped down on who is awarded the Bronze Star Medal since the First Gulf War. As with any fix of a grade inflation problem, there is a transition period where some earned it under the old standard and some earned it under the new, higher standard.
This discussion is too tame. Let's talk about berets!
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ReplyDeleteYou know why Kim Jong-Il isn't wearing any medals?
ReplyDeleteHe hasn't a chest on which to pin them.
Kim - good luck with that, you rotted little stump.
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ReplyDeleteI call BS, too.
ReplyDeleteIke never served in Combat. That is why he had so few medals. Ditto for Nimitz. Compare Patton's or Chesty Puller's fruit salad to Ike or Nimitz and you will see a vast difference.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/11/Chesty_Puller.jpg
http://www.modelshipbuilding.com/swords/patton_in_color.jpg
You need prolonged service in a long war or a series of short ones to build up some fruit salad.
My dad earned five Presidential Unit Citations in four years in Vietnam. He wears them all on his class A's. He also has six rows of ribbons on the other side of his chest. I dare anyone to say he wears too many medals.
As for the Bronze Star, it was awarded to just about everyone in WWII who earned a CIB. So calm down.
There are two kinds of Bronze Stars. One is for meritorious service and the other is for valor.
My great uncles have the ones with a V on them. They got them at Anzio along with the metal embedded in their heads that they took to their graves.
Robert,
ReplyDeleteWhen did every E-6 and above get an BSM? From my information, the Pentagon did a review in 2006 of all medals and got really stingy with them going forward.
Also, Air Force BSM controversy:
http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=33657
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ReplyDeleteRobert,
ReplyDeleteI said, "Finally, the Army has clamped down on who is awarded the Bronze Star Medal since the First Gulf War. As with any fix of a grade inflation problem, there is a transition period where some earned it under the old standard and some earned it under the new, higher standard."
You said, "But you're wrong about the Bronze Star. In Iraq it was known as the 'combat ARCOM.' Everyone I know above the rank of E-6 got one there."
Then I questioned what timeframe you were talking about, which led to a pre and post-2006 distinction.
We can parse the language to determine what time period "In Iraq it was known as..." or "since the First Gulf War..." refers to, but the point I was trying to make is that any time you try to fix the standards of grade inflation, you have a transition period. If the belief is that everyone gets one, then there are senior NCOs and officers who redeploy during the transition period and are in competition for promotion with those who got it under the old system.
I propose that every award/ribbon have a year attached to it. And every National Defense Service Medal have "CNN" in gold letters attached.
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete"With respect to "1/10 of the Marine Corps general pictures," I stand by my comment as it applies to the Marine Corps as a whole. Now, to the extent that the article talks about "senior U.S. military officers," then it is a fair rebuttal to say that Marine generals wear a lot of medals. But when the article talks about lieutenants having more medals than Ike on D-Day, it is fair to discuss the service as a whole."
ReplyDeleteOK, Peter, last I checked if you looked at the photo in the post all of those individuals are senior officers. So, yeah, how about you read and look a little before opening your mouth next time?
"And no, I am not a Marine."
Correct, because being a Marine would denote at least some level of intellect. Seriously, you know nothing about this subject and I don't know why you're commenting on it as if you do. I know Marines with only four years of experience who have 15 ribbons on their chest. You're just way off, dude.
I think this comment applies to the Captain, as well. Don't believe everything you read in the news, because, as this little write-up shows, the vast majority of journalists are complete and utter morons.
"The Marines are far more parsimonious with costume jewelry than the Army."
This is certainly true. They don't have as many proficiency badges and such as the Army does. The Navy and Air Force are the same way.
"Those North Korean generals might have been old enough to have served in the Korean War, but North Korea hasn't fought a war since then. One should wonder what they did to earn all those medals."
Wiped Kim Jong-il's Ass, Fourth Oak Leaf Cluster
Who cares
ReplyDelete