I saw that article yesterday, and I sent it out to several friends. Do not be surprised to see this happen in America. Many US States are already having big pension problems. In fact, governments taking over private pensions would be a popular soak the rich policy. Unions are also very much against private pension plans. And check out what happened to Enron employees holding Enron stock in their retirement plans. The Enron leaders all dumped their stock. Meanwhile, employees were told they could not access their retirement plans, while there was an administration change. The stock price then fell to zero. This is another problem with retirement plans, the government rules dictate what you can do with your own money. I hope these retirement programs continue in good faith. But sometimes bad things can happen.
California will be the first to go this route. After all the unions have to have their rich pensions topped up while everyone else will be left with just enough to buy cat food.
The penalty for early withdrawal is only 10%. You'd still be better off over time investing tax free and paying the penalty at the end, compared to paying taxes every year. The more salient threat is the return of "excess distribution" penalties to prevent this strategy.
I think the real purpose of threats of confiscation is to nudge account holders into giving the government an early tax windfall upon liquidation. I don't think Congress is crazy enough to really confiscate (whether actual or de facto) retirement accounts.
If you don`t think this can happen in the USA, Google FDR`s gold nationalization program. Back in the 1930s many people still owned gold coins. I mentioned this 1930s program in an earlier post. It gives you an idea how scary things can become in hard economic times. Most people find it hard to believe the federal government confiscated private property, but it happened. Another option governments may pursue with regards to private pensions, they may force certain investment types. An example would be converting all funds into 30 year government bonds. During government defaults bad things can happen.
Don't know what you are all afraid of... Our "Retirement Accounts" won't be worth anything because the dollar won't be worth the paper it's printed on... Might be good to wipe your butt with though. Enjoy the Decline!
I think you're a little too cautious here. In the opening paragraph the author states that "most pension schemes in Europe are organised by the state" so these aren't exactly free market private pensions, but more like... state-sponsored private pensions I guess... So being state run, I guess it gives the state/country the ability to take it away at its whim.
We Europeans are very progressive people. We do not even need to breed new generation to finance and take care of elderly.
ReplyDeleteI saw that article yesterday, and I sent it out to several friends.
ReplyDeleteDo not be surprised to see this happen in America. Many US States are already having big pension problems. In fact, governments taking over private pensions would be a popular soak the rich policy. Unions are also very much against private pension plans.
And check out what happened to Enron employees holding Enron stock in their retirement plans. The Enron leaders all dumped their stock. Meanwhile, employees were told they could not access their retirement plans, while there was an administration change. The stock price then fell to zero. This is another problem with retirement plans, the government rules dictate what you can do with your own money.
I hope these retirement programs continue in good faith. But sometimes bad things can happen.
California will be the first to go this route. After all the unions have to have their rich pensions topped up while everyone else will be left with just enough to buy cat food.
ReplyDeleteRetirement is over, people just haven't realized it yet.
ReplyDeleteThe penalty for early withdrawal is only 10%. You'd still be better off over time investing tax free and paying the penalty at the end, compared to paying taxes every year. The more salient threat is the return of "excess distribution" penalties to prevent this strategy.
ReplyDeleteI think the real purpose of threats of confiscation is to nudge account holders into giving the government an early tax windfall upon liquidation. I don't think Congress is crazy enough to really confiscate (whether actual or de facto) retirement accounts.
If you don`t think this can happen in the USA, Google FDR`s gold nationalization program. Back in the 1930s many people still owned gold coins.
ReplyDeleteI mentioned this 1930s program in an earlier post. It gives you an idea how scary things can become in hard economic times. Most people find it hard to believe the federal government confiscated private property, but it happened.
Another option governments may pursue with regards to private pensions, they may force certain investment types. An example would be converting all funds into 30 year government bonds.
During government defaults bad things can happen.
Don't know what you are all afraid of... Our "Retirement Accounts" won't be worth anything because the dollar won't be worth the paper it's printed on...
ReplyDeleteMight be good to wipe your butt with though.
Enjoy the Decline!
I think you're a little too cautious here. In the opening paragraph the author states that "most pension schemes in Europe are organised by the state" so these aren't exactly free market private pensions, but more like... state-sponsored private pensions I guess... So being state run, I guess it gives the state/country the ability to take it away at its whim.
ReplyDeletePlease correct me if I'm wrong here
The Obama Administration is already thinking along these lines: Obama Administration Plans to Seize 401(k) Retirement Accounts
ReplyDeleteThey are looking to "Annualize" private retirement accounts like 401(k)s and IRAs
Well, first they go for your IRA and 401K, and then they find they can't get enough from there, and so they go after other accounts.
ReplyDeleteAnd then they dig for the gold you've buried below the compost pile in your backyard.....and they're already in Colorado, so it's hard to go Galt....
Who would have believed Washington would take over control of General Motors?
ReplyDeleteVery scary.
ReplyDeleteBut if they try to do this here there will be a armed revolt.
Hopefully there is enough lead time to flee the country with your $$.