There is not so much a "great debate" as much as there are two distinct philosophical camps within the Red Pill community. One is that one must walk the path, endure life's hardships, and suffer life's assails in order to truly grow and become a man. The other is that (with the internet) we can garner this same wisdom by learning from the lives of others. Studying them and gleaning the life lessons without the pain and suffering.
To exemplify this take the MGTOW community. Within the MGTOW community there are genuine men who walked the path of life, suffered immeasurably, learned their lessons and grew as men. There are others (whom I term "VirginTOWS") who merely study real men academically, from the comforts of their own mother's basement, who ne'er set foot in the real world, ne'er had their lips touch a woman's, yet ardently support and claim to be MGTOW's. When I put together a video exposing this hypocrisy, the VirginTOW's completely sperged out because nothing enrages hypocrites more than the truth.
But whereas you might think I come down solidly and solely in the first camp, I believe young men (and women) would benefit most from pulling from both camps.
This thought was inspired by a post by Adam Piggott, our loofa-loving former-Australian, now European friend. It was in response to my video about the individual being right and society being wrong, namely that in order to become the truly independent minded men we all aspire to be, you have to go through the hardship, suffering, and enduring of life's challenges. But the more I thought about it, the more I realized a balance must be struck between the academic and practitioner camps of the Red Pill community, otherwise we will suffer unnecessarily and forfeit an amazing amount of success and advancement in our lives.
First, there is no doubt in my mind of the benefits of walking the actual path and suffering what life throws at you. It DOES galvanize and strengthen men. It DOES increase your testosterone, and I would even argue that the human brain CANNOT learn unless there is some actual pain or a price to be paid. You can sit there reading all the Roosh, Rollo, and Roissy you want, until you get your ass shot down by scores of women, hit the gym like Ed Latimore, or ride across the country like Ole Cappy, you will merely be a professor, a theoretician, and teacher who can only teach and never do.
But this doesn't mean taking in the wisdom and advice (not to mention learning from the HORRIBLE mistakes) of other men has no value. It most certainly does. It prevents you from making the same mistakes men before you did, it prevents you from wasting your resources (as men before you did), and (what I would argue is the best benefit of the red pill) is provides you clarity and sanity so you know you're going down the right path and that, no, you're not insane. If you take the academic approach and study the wisdom of others, you will ensure you do not waste DECADES of your finite life and HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS in wasted resources.
The real issue is whether you're going to blaze your own path in life...
or stay in your basement keyboard-warrioring about how much you hate girls.
This is the true benefit of combining the two camps - genuine progress. In taking the advice and wisdom from your predecessors WHILE ALSO committing yourself to walking the path of life, you practically guarantee you will live a better life than your predecessors. Just like aerospace engineers built off of the Wright Brothers, inevitably leading us to land on the moon, so too can men (and women) build off of red pill wisdom to lead lives much greater than ours. The issue is whether you're going to pursue excellence and push the envelope of life, or merely rest on the academic laurels of others, giving up on life and in a defeatist mentality say "why bother?"
It is here I agree with Mr. Piggott. Your predecessors turned up many stones, but you have your own stones and suffering to endure. Completely new and different stones that will not only add to the canon of previously-established wisdom, but the up-turning of which will provide the exercise that turns you into a seasoned, salty, experienced, masculine man. And when your time comes, you should pass on this wisdom to the future generation so that they too may advance the understanding and success of humanity. The real issue is whether you're going to sit in one camp or the other, either unnecessarily repeating the mistakes of others, or lazily being satisfied studying the lives of others, living no life of your own. I can only say real men will stand on the shoulders of those real men before them, and commit to going out into life to make completely new, unforeseen and SPECTACULARLY horrible mistakes of their own. It is the only way to progress.
If you want a summary of previously established wisdom so that you may have a better life than your predecessors, I strongly recommend reading Bachelor Pad Economics. It may cost $20 and take 8 hours to read, but it will save you $200,000 and DECADES of your life. It is simply a MUST READ for every young man and woman.
No pain (struggle), no gain.
ReplyDelete"But whereas you might think I come down solidly and solely in the first camp, I believe young men (and women) would benefit most from pulling from both camps."
ReplyDeleteUltimately that is the purpose of studying history and the Bible. Not so much the dates, places and Books. But that which lies underneath, the players, why they did what they did and what were the consequences. Read 'The Civil War' (latin: De Bello Civili) by Caesar for it is as much an expose of Roman society as it is about the civil war. (You also figure out by the end he was pretty high on himself.)
Enjoy Decline indeed, for that is when Feminism will be roasted.
There are three kinds of men. The first learns by reading or hearing from others and taking the lesson on trust. The second, a bit more skeptical, learns by observing others and watching what happens as a result. And the third? The third kind of man only learns by pissing on the damn electric fence.
ReplyDeletePer your point, the philosophical question is which is the wiser path in life? Guess it depends on the voltage eh? Hehe
I fall into the veteran MGTOW camp. I'm 62, twice divorced raped, and yes, I wasted decades and hundreds of thousands of dollars chasing the myth of lies I was born with and force fed. The Red Pill truth is a bitter pill to swallow and digest. For us older guys it is the realization that everything we were born to believe and conditioned to believe is a lie designed to fool a man into voluntary slavery, voluntary self-sacrifice, and even voluntary suicide. Accepting these bitter truths is by far the most difficult thing a man, old or young, will ever do.
ReplyDeleteThe younger MGTOW that have not paid the price of the scars deserve a little more in the way of understanding. Their scars are from seeing what their mothers, aunts, and sisters did to their fathers, uncles, and brothers. And also being raised by single mothers.
They should be applauded for learning from their elder veterans and not repeating the same mistakes. Something that young men are loathe do, as history tells us. In a way, they are wise beyond their years.
Also, they are adrift in a raging sea of uncertainty with only the compass of the veterans to guide them, but no map. The traditional time tested ways for a man to prove or challenge himself no longer exist, with the possible exception of the military. But even the younger men are waking up to the never ending wars to prop up the petrodollar with their lives, limbs, and blood for a society that will not or can not even employ them afterwards because Suzy Snowflake has what should have been their job.
So, Cappy, what do you expect these young men to do? They can't get a worthless degree because they can't get in college due to having a penis. They can't get a decent job due to gender and racial hiring quotas and NAFTA. They can't get laid because they don't look like Brad Pitt on top of being broke and they also recognize it is just too dangerous. They are persona non grata to society and they know it. What do young men in such dire straits do?
Historically, they begin or join revolutions, i.e., the sexual repression of Islamic young men is the cornerstone of terrorist recruitment. The promise of 72 virgins for blowing oneself to smithereens can seem like a good deal. Their hypocritical fathers and leaders don't have that problem due to wives or access to the brothels of Europe.
So, what are the options for the Ghost Army of sexually and socially disenfranchised young men of the West? The answer is not many. This explains the rise of gang culture and the expectation of not seeing one's thirtieth birthday. Live fast, die young, leave a good looking corpse is a reasonable motto given the alternative. On top of that, they will have experienced a family that cared about them, something many have never known. They have each other's back in a society that has turned its back on them.
What is the answer? I don't know and neither do they. But what I do know is that from such smoldering embers the fires of revolution ignite. Dark days loom. Cheers, I think.
Spot on, Cappy.
ReplyDeleteJust because I'm rapidly approaching 40, and my body is letting me know that I may want to be getting out of the Army soon, doesn't mean that I can't learn more. I'm salty, but I bought my copy of Poor Richard's Retirement.
So they learn by doing and by study and it works best in combination. No big insight there. In most endeavors that is true.
ReplyDeleteWhat may be more interesting is what becomes of - and how useful are - the ones who only study and never do? What becomes of them?
When one first takes an interest in building boats, he studies everything he can get his hands on. Back when I did this it was the 1980s - so study meant library. I was fortunate to live in a town with a county library, a state library, and a major university library that had many old titles on microfiche (that's little tiny film for the youngsters).
So you read and read until finally you can't stand reading about it any longer. You gotta cut some damn wood.
Some who go down that path never reach the point of cutting the wood. What happens to them? I guess in the past they just quit reading and found a new enthusiasm. Today some of them go to boatbuilding message boards to flaunt their vast knowledge and naysay anyone who's daring to cut wood.
I think these "VirginTOWs" need a push. There's much more at stake for them than whether they build a boat or not. Shove them out of the nest if you can. Their lives depend on it.
The economist's way is "pay money to get a limo for the path" so I understand why you feel so threatened when mgtow has the potential to nullify the fake value of money.
ReplyDeleteTo build on what commenter John Smith said, I personally think we need to encourage young men to strike out on their own. To hell with what society wants, they threw men away years ago. We just need a way to give our young men a sense of confidence and nerve.
ReplyDelete