Friday, February 20, 2009

Accusing Men of Immaturity Because They Don't Wish to Marry

I tire of these stories because the question of "where have the good men gone" has been answered time and time again, it's just I presume the women don't like the answer they're getting and therefore keep asking it hoping somehow they will get an answer they like (even though it won't be true).

So in a spirit of kind-heartedness I will help out the lost WSJ reporter and hopefully end this needless discussion once and for all (which I probably won't because it won't be the "correct" answer women are looking for.)

Here is an excerpt from the article;



I shall make it bullet-pointy to be succinct and save us time (though, there are a lot of bullet points to make)

  • One, the now never ending common refrain that women now earn the majority of degrees. For the 348th-freaking time it's because you major in easier/worthless subjects. THat's why you earn the majority of degrees, but still make only 76% of what men do. Ironically the reporter has her "masters in English" because even though you've been speaking it for your entire life, you still need to get an advanced degree in it so you speak it "real good."
  • She highlights women's advances in education as proof they are "more mature." Which is the largest erroneous premise of the article. Women are not more mature than men. Just because men play video games and drink and fart and belch, does not mean we are less mature. Maybe by the "female" definition we are, but if we'd follow that we'd all be a bunch of betas no girl would want to date. Being mature is supporting ourselves - not rushing out to propose to a girl and start making babies. Just because we can support ourselves on less money than you can, does not make us less mature. Matter of fact, it makes us MORE mature because we are being fiscally responsible living in dumps we can afford instead of insisting on living in Uptown and buying fancy clothes and cars and appletini's we can't afford.
  • Did you hear of this "divorce fad" going around? Apparently it was started by the baby boomers and CONTINUES TODAY. Not to mention a lot of the 20 something men who aren't "mature" enough to get married tomorrow REMEMBER THEIR PARENTS GETTING DIVORCED AND ARE A LITTLE GUN SHY
  • Did you hear about this "divorce fad" going around? Apparently the rate of divorce didn't drop with Gen X or Gen Y either.
  • Did you hear of this "divorce fad" going around? Apparently men get to pay out the majority of the time be it alimony or child support.
  • Did you hear about this "divorce fad" going around? Apparently 65% of the time it's women who initiate divorce.
  • Feminism and feminists are not sexy. When you say, "well I consider myself a feminist, but don't mind staying at home and being a good wife" all the guy heard was "well I consider myself a feminist blah blah blah blah blah." The term has been tainted by its "profession" to represent something that is not pro-woman at all. DO NOT CLAIM TO BE ONE. It will send the men running.
  • Kids cost around $500,000 each to raise. given employment prospects we can't afford that. Much rather buy a boat or frankly work all that much less.
  • Hey, you hear about this federal budget deficit and debt? Apparently we elected this guy "Barack Obama" and a bunch of democrats into office who are now mortgaging the future. This means our expenses in the future will be higher. Well, of course us "foolish, immature, pooping, farting boys" were too "immature" to vote for him like you wise women, but then again we're too busy flinging poo at each other to ponder the future macro-economic ramifications of a collapsing dollar.
  • Hey, you hear about this social security medicare thing? Apparently enough "smart wise women" disproportionately kept voting for democrats to essentially have those immature 20 something men pay for the livelihood for these aging people. This added expense on our futures make's it that much harder economically to commit to a wife and children.
  • Hey, you hear about this "welfare state" "medicaid" thing? Apparently enough "smart wise women" disproportionately over the years voted in enough democrats to essentially replace the role of fathers with government programs making fathers not only unnecessary, but an increasingly risky and unrewarding proposition, not to mention, making it easier for women to just up and leave their husbands, because well, "they needed to find themselves" and the government will take care of the kids while they go pursue their EPL fantasy.
  • Hey, if I'm not going to be a father, then what incentive to I have to "grow up?"
  • Hey, did you hear about this "welfare state" thing? Apparently because we've now outsourced bringing up children to the government and have to create government jobs for all the "sociology majors" and "education majors"and "communications majors" our tax bill will go through the roof. Oh! Wait!!! No it doesn't! I forgot! I'm a guy! I can live on very little, work a crappy job, work part time, live in a crappy apartment with my buds and STILL have enough disposable income to play video games and buy booze.
  • Sex in the City? Not sexy. Tell them you watch "Hogan's Heroes" instead.
Then we have much more succinct, non-socio-political explanations;
  • The drama and BS men have to suffer from 14-25ish or so drives them into the arms of X-Box 360, the chums and booze.
  • The risk/return of known factors such as friendship, a cheap living, fishing, booze, video games, and just the plan damn freedom that comes with it, HEAVILY outweighs any potential returns we'd get from spending time pursuing women.
  • There is no risk of having a dog, a gaming console, friends or a poker game. There is a risk of having a wife and a child.
  • Girls, in general, are completely unaware of the fact that men are 1/2 the equation. No consideration is given as to what men might want in a relationship (read her article again)
  • In general, men and their traditional roles have become deprecated and are no longer needed for society. Therefore some may commit suicide, but most will opt to enjoy a simpler, easier self-serving life while we're here.
So to summarize all the bullet points:

In short you have made a life of bachelortude and singledom more attractive an option (economically, socially and romantically) than marrying you.

You may not "like" that answer. It may even make you angry. But it is the truth.

So can we now please stop it with the "where have all the good men gone" schtick?

Thank you, and as always, enjoy the decline.

24 comments:

Workshy Joe said...

If women say that I'm immature for not wanting marriage or kids I just Agree & Amplify.

"Yes. I'm soooo immature. A man-child like me wouldn't be right for you. I know your dream guy is out there somewhere and he is just dying to get married and have children with you. No time to waste now. Go find him. Run!"

The Great and Powerful Oz said...

You missed commenting on the hatred of geeks. You know, the guys who built the infrastructure that modern society runs on. Now engineers, scientists and mathemeticians are are denegrated and avoided, woemn would rather go for sociopathic business school graduates.

Yeah, our society is doomed.

John said...

Hmmm ... men are regarded as three-legged wallets by many women. And the men know it.

Life with a wife and child is expensive. Then comes the divorce and -- yee Gods the man is supporting his wife, child, and two law firms, in a legal environment which is totally hostile.

It is probably a good idea when contemplating marriage to insist that the wife swear to "love, honour, and OBEY". It puts the matter where it should be. Of course, the fine print says nothing about "not criticizing", which exerts a lot of pressure on the husband not to screw up!

Anonymous said...

I'd like kids.

I'd like to get married.

I will even do diapers and cook meals.

Even still, I do not meet the needs of the modern woman, and am alone.

So instead, I watch a lot of TV.

It's a weird world.

CSPB said...

I listened to Kay Hymnowitz, author of “Manning Up,” on the WSJ embedded video link. She is not a friend of men and since she does not understand the reasons for men avoiding marriage, her solutions are laughable. Rather than address the source, she laments the result.

It seems that female solutions are always to attempt to control men, or shame men into doing what women want. This is repackaged “woman as victim” baloney. Based on the video interview it seems she believes that “Women are deprived of good men because men are immature and won’t man up to fulfill a woman’s dreams, desires and destiny.”

Hymnowitz is selling Unicorn crap in a pretty bag tied with a pink bow! But since Unicorns poop Skittles, and Skittles smell fruity, I predict that women will eat this up.

Book Review:
www.pajamasmedia.com/blog/ask_dr_helen_8

Sif said...

"For the 348th-freaking time it's because you major in easier/worthless subjects."

English! Woo hoo!

kurt9 said...

A pre-adult?

Being an adult means two and only two things to me. Accepting responsibility for my own actions and being self-reliant and engaging in some kind of productive activity. I accepted the first requirement when I was 17 and the second when I graduated with my engineering degree at age 22.

The notion that I must enter into any kind of interpersonal relationship in order to be considered an adult is utterly insulting.

The cunt who wrote the Wall Street piece can go fuck herself in the ass.

RJ said...

As much as I completely disagree with your economic and political POVs, these are always funny and a great reminder why I never want a kid.

From my understanding, maturity always meant the ability one had to empathize/sympathize with others needs and concerns. Women in their 20's are deficient in this aspect when it comes to relationships.

Enjoying Galt's Gulch said...

I am surprised you would spend your time commenting on a bitter harridan's world view which is formed (apparently) through movie characters.

That an English major cannot separate Hollywood from reality is truly tragic.

Enjoyed your comments though-the fact that she is looking for an Oblama clone is telling.

Anonymous said...

"The Great and Powerful Oz said...

You missed commenting on the hatred of geeks. You know, the guys who built the infrastructure that modern society runs on. Now engineers, scientists and mathemeticians are are denegrated and avoided, woemn would rather go for sociopathic business school graduates.

Yeah, our society is doomed."

I've always been surprised at this. You figure the people who actually advance society through technology, infrastructure, etc. would get a little more respect. When I was just out of college and would tell girls that I was an engineer, I could see them recoil and almost like they were disgusted. I quickly learned to stop doing that. What's the incentive when you see unemployed dudes in shitty bands who frequently get laid because they can dress the part and barely play an instrument.

Anonymous said...

can't help thinking that when the decline sets in hard that a lot of women are in for a shock.

(Men too, but like the old New York Times headline "joke": End of the world Comes, Women and minorities hardest hit.)\

I'm taking bets whether we get a Mugabe to head us down to total collapse and cannibalism, a Hitler to play "the republic is dead, long live the Empire" card, a Pinochet who restores some order and is widely detested by the chattering classes, or we have an outbreak of spines &brains& balls in the congress.

Actually I'm guessing a mushy endless prevarication that just makes everything far worse fo rlonger.

Thomas Matlack said...

This is one of the best responses I have seen to the WSJ man bashing (along with the Slate piece by Hanna Rosin's Friday as well bashing SAHDs): http://bit.ly/WSJonMen
Shouldn't we all, men and women alike, want men to be the best fathers, husbands, workers and men possible? Isn't the real movement that is going on behind the media hype, a profound conversation among men of all kinds as to what that means and how to get there despite the challenges faced by manhood in 2011, whether war or recession or the desire to show up at home?
Let's focus on what's really happening and what's really important.
@tmatlack
Founder www.goodmenproject.com

amcz said...

The author doesn't seem to realize that men aren't "choosing" to do anything. It is simply the result of the current environment.

A bear does not choose to eat fish or berries, it simply eats what is available.

Anonymous said...

The article you referenced is discussed elsewhere. Here's a link to a comment that distills beta-maleness to its essence:

http://www.frumforum.com/whos-to-blame-when-men-act-like-boys#comment-251510

Simon Grey said...

Really, at the end of the day, good men always go where they're wanted.

free0352 said...

I read often, but rarely comment. I felt the need to add to and expand on this great post.

Ping Jockey said...

"...the question of "where have the good men gone" has been answered time and time again, it's just I presume the women don't like the answer they're getting and therefore keep asking it hoping somehow they will get an answer they like (even though it won't be true)."

Insanity has been defined as this same female phenomena you have described -- i.e., "repeating the same thing over and over again, yet expecting a different outcome/result."

"The Men Have Left The Building.
The men have left the movie theater for the video game.
The men have left the television studio for the internet.
The men have left the temple for authentic spirituality.
The men have left the retail store for the online store.
The men have left the marriage cage for the bachelor sky.
The men have left the college for the self-education university.
The men have left the corporate office for the entrepreneur office.
The men have left the Anglosphere for their own sphere.

Welcome to tomorrow."
-- Outcastsuperstar

Novaseeker said...

Shouldn't we all, men and women alike, want men to be the best fathers, husbands, workers and men possible? Isn't the real movement that is going on behind the media hype, a profound conversation among men of all kinds as to what that means and how to get there despite the challenges faced by manhood in 2011, whether war or recession or the desire to show up at home?
Let's focus on what's really happening and what's really important.
@tmatlack
Founder www.goodmenproject.com


Eh, no.

We should be focused on empowering men to make the best decisions for *their* lives based on what *they* want. For some/many that involves long-term relationships, and for some/many, it may not. But in any case, it needs to be determined by individual guys -- that is, what they want out of life. It isn't the case that all men need to please women as husbands and fathers and good worker bees.

Unfortunately, your website has a bunch of stuff written by Hugo Schwyzer on it, making it extremely dubious at best.

Novaseeker said...

Shouldn't we all, men and women alike, want men to be the best fathers, husbands, workers and men possible? Isn't the real movement that is going on behind the media hype, a profound conversation among men of all kinds as to what that means and how to get there despite the challenges faced by manhood in 2011, whether war or recession or the desire to show up at home?
Let's focus on what's really happening and what's really important.
@tmatlack
Founder www.goodmenproject.com


Eh, no.

We should be focused on empowering men to make the best decisions for *their* lives based on what *they* want. For some/many that involves long-term relationships, and for some/many, it may not. But in any case, it needs to be determined by individual guys -- that is, what they want out of life. It isn't the case that all men need to please women as husbands and fathers and good worker bees.

Unfortunately, your website has a bunch of stuff written by Hugo Schwyzer on it, making it extremely dubious at best.

Anonymous said...

Are Captain Capitalism and Hugo Schwyzer the same person?

Is one plagiarizing the other?

Anonymous said...

My dear old dad once looked at the men my sisters were dating and said, "I don't understand these guys. When I was their age, I was responsible for people's lives."

It's true that men had more responsibilities decades ago. I'm not much enamored of bashing men, but I do think one thing is true of them that is not true of women. Women are willing to learn from men. We've been instructed by them our entire lives, we've seen how they get ahead and much of how we've reconfigured ourselves is by adopting the things we saw that worked for men and that could be applied to ourselves. Men, however, won't learn from women once they're old enough to do so. They're terrified of any kind of feminine influence rubbing off on them. Of being perceived as "girly." They'd rather put us all down, or tell dirty jokes or try and show what guys they are by refusing to engage rather than look at what we're doing and try and see any good in it for them.

Women, now, start businesses, drive companies, run banks and governments and head families all on their own. Men's fear of this is only going to keep them from progressing. Women may be disappointed that there are "no good men left," but right or wrong, the men are only going to suffer for it. Gentlemen, we're not only here for your pleasure--to carry your kids and keep the house neat. We have things to share. Why not try and see some of the good in it? Or is that idea just to scary to treat seriously?

Herb said...

Women may be disappointed that there are "no good men left," but right or wrong, the men are only going to suffer for it.

Which, of course, is the reason for all the "where are all the good women?" articles to match the one that sparked this post. In fact, here's links to all I can find:

...

Gentlemen, we're not only here for your pleasure--to carry your kids and keep the house neat. We have things to share. Why not try and see some of the good in it? Or is that idea just to scary to treat seriously?

We're not here for your pleasure either, despite my ex-wife's ability to use the state of CT to make me be that for five years.

I'm not here to be some fat chick's "consolation prize" until she loses weight and decides she can do better. I've done it once so I've got my fat chick and mangina cred.

My love, support (emotional and physical) weren't enough to be a child molester, 21 year old, or biker (to cover her first three bfs after me) in sexy.

Yet, the very month the alimony ran out she moved in with another computer geek with a big salary and eventually married him. After all, in her late 30s the pretty boys and bad boys didn't like her any more so she needed to secure that meal ticket.

Yet the problem is men think women are here for our needs...

What a fucking load of shit.

Kevin said...

Agreed on pretty much everything except for all the political garbage.

Martian Bachelor said...

NAEMALT - Not All English Majors Are Like That

Thirty years ago, John Gordon wrote a book called "The Myth of the Monstrous Male". He'd been through a grad school program where he knew some of the wacko-luminaries of second wave feminism, notably Robin Morgan: "I claim that rape exists any time sexual intercourse occurs when it has not been initiated by the woman, out of her own genuine affection and desire".

That's pretty much the law now, at the woman's discretion, so you better get it signed and notarized from her.

Seriously, wouldn't you love to have non-rape sex FOR ONCE, guys? What the h-- is wrong with women that they aren't out there busy doing their part and all they can to end rape? What are they all, pro-rape or something? Stop the presses!

The Great American Man Shortage (the title of another book, as it turns out) was created about the same time. Following more than a decade (c.1968-80) of telling men marriage was *the* institution which most oppressed women, they shoved it hard into reverse, stripping everyone's gears but their own. (They don't have gears - because they don't know how to drive a stick - just a spinning hamster wheel...) Net: now we're oppressing them by *not* marrying them.

This entire artifice was complete by the late-80s, when a book called "The Peter Pan Syndrome" was a bestseller, and the subject of newspaper and magazine articles, TV talk show discussions, and the like. Hymowitz has never given any indication whatsoever that she's even HEARD of this episode in American culture. So give her credit for having rediscovered phlogiston 25 years later.

Anyway, these are the two prongs of feminism. In their view every man is in one box or the other. The first has committed a crime of commission, the second a crime of omission. Now you now why they all dig criminals so much: those thugs and bad boys and wife murderers on death row they send marriage proposals to are really in touch with their feminine sides after all. We all know which box we want to be in. Neither! Right?

That's why they make it sooo easy for so many of us. We can now oppress them merely by doing nothing! Previously you had to marry them to do this. Ain't progress great? Thanks gals. I heart you from afar.

Remember guys, next time you stop and think about it, that no matter what you're doing, or seem to be doing, or even not doing, you're really totally on top of this and are busy *multi-tasking*! Be sure to remind women of that the next time you hear one going on about how superior women supposedly are at that. You're just doing it so much more efficiently, one sign of which is that you're doing it completely silently, whereas their antiquated, crude hamster wheels squeak and moan like mad.

And I was only an English minor...