Let me explain something that you must understand, for I see it frustrating my conservative, libertarians and capitalist friends;
It is pointless to argue with liberals and leftists.
I don't mean this in a broad-insulting-stroke-of-the-brush sort of way. I mean that in a sincere, realistic way.
It is pointless to argue with liberals and leftists.
And here is the reason why;
When you argue with them, you are not arguing facts or statistics, you are arguing against a religion. Understand that conservatism, capitalism, and liberty are all founded in empirical evidence that has proven, time and time again, that when a people are free and you do not tax them to death, they will thrive and succeed. Limitless examples throughout history show this, not to mention terrabytes of economic data will support this as well.
Capitalism is the BEST economic system, hands down, period, if for any other reason it is the only system based in reality.
However, leftists ideology, whatever the strain, is not based in reality. It is based in a belief. Specifically, a belief that they WANT to believe in. There is no empirical evidence. There is no rational thought or intellectual honesty or rigor involved. It is simply something for the masses to opiate themselves on and feel good about it. ie- it socialism, leftism, liberalism IS A RELIGION.
Now two points that must be made of this;
1. You can't argue with fundamentalists, not matter what their stripe. Religious right christians that insist sex is bad and gays are evil. Radical muslims that want to blow you up because, well, you're not a radical muslim. Extreme fringes of Jews who won't fly on planes on Fridays (or whatever day it is, I'm not terribly familiar with the Jewish religion). Regardless, trying to convince a leftist that lower taxes and a small government is best for society is like trying to convince a christian that dinosaurs did indeed exist MILLIONS of years ago and that carbon dating is a correct technique. It goes against their religion.
Yes, they have no basis. Yes, they ignore the empirical evidence. But that is the whole point of a religion. You ignore reality because you CHOOSE to believe in what you WANT to believe in.
2. The hypocrisy of it all. I want to know the number of global warming zealots that mock christians and religious people in general. No seriously, think about that. How many leftists who believe in this global warming RELIGION in the same breath then slam on religious people. The brush could be plied to leftists in general. How many socialists scoff or mock people for believing in something that has no empirical evidence to support it yet at the same time swallow the socialist religion whole?
Thus, my friends, there is only one thing to do. And that is let reality do your arguing for you. You can't win, because they won't believe you. It is more important to them to adhere and subscribe to their religion of socialism than it is to adhere to anything as noble and honorable as the truth. Therefore you're just wasting your breath.
But just like the radical muslim who might have second thoughts about blowing himself up, or the 75 year old christian, spinster virgin who passed up on plenty of honorable men to be alone with her cats and her bible reality will inevitably dawn on them. They will look at their single, infinitesimally finite life they were given and realized they ruined it. They pissed the only thing they had away. Think about it for a second. Don't you think the burnt out hippie who is now approaching 65 years old who still wears the pony tail and can point at nothing but, "sticking it to the man" back in '68 as his largest single achievement? How about the millions of aged Russian communists who were all for the Bolshevikian revolution? Boy, wasn't the past 90 years of their lives fun and fruitful? What will the modern legions of socialists, leftists and communists achieve in their lives? You do realize that the majority of young people voted to have Obama make them indentured slaves (ergo why "young" is latin for "stupid as all hell.)? How successful do you think these socialist zealots are going to be in their lives pursuing a "dream" that is really a nightmare?
But you see, that's the only thing that will convince them otherwise. It's not going to be you. It's not going to be the charming Captain with all of his charts and graphs. It's not even going to be people who have lived and suffered under communism.
No, what will inevitably prove you right will be the leftists getting what they want and realizing they've pissed their lives away.
And that is the best revenge one can have.
29 comments:
It's not just any religion that lefties adhere to, but a specific kind: a Death Cult. These people simply hate life. They are miserable, and their envy of those who are not miserable drives them to advocate the most horrible crimes. Lefty enviro-wackos really do want to exterminate 90% of the population "to save the planet." Nazis and Communists enjoy mass murder. When Stalin began his show trials in the 1930's he invited emigre Russian communists to return to Russia to be tried. Many volunteered to return to certain death. Why? Because lefties love death. They don't even care about the lefty politics they espouse. That's just a tool to get them into a position to increase deaths. That's why you see the same death cult in Islamo-wacky terrorists. Islam is just a vehicle to get them where they really want to be: in a position to cause death.
The real problem here is depression. Depressed people see blackness all around them, and want to end it. Some take drugs, others latch themselves onto death cults. They are the "family murder" writ large. You know, those stories you see in the news occasionally about some guy who murders his entire family, then kills himself. He's so full of self hate that he must not only die, but he must erase his entire existence from the earth, so his family must die with him. Left-wing politics is simply the industrial-scale version.
As my Discrete Mathematics teacher said, "You can't argue with a fool."
I agree, arguing with a zealot is pointless. What disturbs me is the permanent damage thats being done for generations to come in the name of AGW and liberalism. Once something is enacted at the federal level, its pretty much here to stay (the only exceptions being tax cuts, they're never permanent).
Damage in the form of irreconcilable national debt, erosion of freedom and choice, and the state of apathy held by younger generations towards changing anything. Our kids are being weened in an environment hostile to any viewpoint not lockstep with liberalism.
I guess I'm a depressed conservative. By the time todays generation gets around to realizing the harm they've done, it'll be too late for all of us.
You've hit the nail on the head as usual Cap. There's just no arguing with these people.
I think the above comments are astute too: liberals are envious, that is they hate the good for simply being the good and they won't be happy until everyone is as miserable as they are. That's why Palin was the target of such vitriol; the feminists saw her and thought, "How can she do all the things we hate and actually be happier than we are?! Stop her!" Similarly, liberals see a guy busting his butt at work and wonder, "How can he like this? Stop him!"
Fundamentally, they don't understand the path from rational values to hard work to happiness. They operate wholly on unguided emotion, i.e. whim. That's why their political plans are so incoherent and why they demonize "consistency." Only liberals could criticize a man for having the consistency of valuing "supporting himself" and following up that value by working hard and saving money. Meanwhile, they. . . well look at the last 100 days for ample examples of insane ideas incoherently clumped together into a "plan."
The "glue" of the plan is what you pointed out to be their fundamentalist belief in the plan. But that belief and hatred is all they have, since theirs is not a plan based in reality.
To their credit, though, they're always very clear when they defend their plans:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWHgUE9AD4s
The death toll for the 20th century's dabbling in communism stands at about 100 million souls. That makes lefty the number one killer in the history of mankind.
I place the number higher, with the staggering abortion rate in socialist/communist nations in that era.
In Red China, newborn girls were routinely left outside overnight to die from exposure. This way, the parents could try again for a boy under the "one child" edict. They had a euphemism, "sending the child up north to live with relatives".
You said - "No, what will inevitably prove you right will be the leftists getting what they want and realizing they've pissed their lives away."
Right, but why do the rest of us have to suffer because the liberal elites can't recognize fact and truth if it smacked them in the face???
I'd say we have an obligation to help liberals find reality as quickly as possible - before they screw us into the wall.
Cappy, you had given out some advice once that I remember, and have used several times.
When arguing with a liberal, do not try to convince them. Bet them.
Used this on a guy at work about a year ago when the housing crisis was all the news. He was convinced that it was Bush's fault. So, I bet him $50 that he could not prove it with any factual evidence. (BTW, main stream news articles did NOT count.) He took the bet, and ended up weaseling out of it a few days later.
Funny thing though, even though he could not produce a single piece of evidence linking the Bush administration with the foreclosure crisis, he is still convinced that it is all Bush's fault.
Not so sure that I agree with Anon... above. Bit of a severe description. Probably has a basis in truth.
Personally, I think it is more about envy then depression. Had a discussion with a liberal about how it was unfair that XYZ got paid $$$$$$, but he only got paid $$.
When I pointed out that XYZ had worked his way into that position, and had moved up through the organization, and demonstrated his worth over and over again, whereas my liberal friend was fresh out of college, and was still learning the ropes, he said "well maybe I am not quite as cutthroat as that, but it's still unfair that I have to slave away while he gets richer."
Ah, envy.
He has more then I do, therefore it is unfair. And, no I am not going to work to improve myself, I deserve more.
In the liberal religion:
- Government is God
- Obama is the Messiah
- Taxes are tithes
- Earth Day, Labor Day, May Day and MLKs Birthday are high holy days
- Vegan, vegetarian, and organic are dietary restrictions
- Abortion, protests, sit-ins, and labor strikes are sacraments
- Das Kapital, The People's History of the US, and The Bell Jar are parts of their Bible
- The 'peace sign' is their religious symbol
- Evolution and The Big Bang are their Creation myths
- Global Warming is their apocalypse
It is a cult of self-hatred and death.
Dinosaurs were put here to test my faith.
"Regardless, trying to convince a leftist that lower taxes and a small government is best for society is like trying to convince a christian that dinosaurs did indeed exist MILLIONS of years ago and that carbon dating is a correct technique. It goes against their religion."
There are Christians who believe that dinosaurs existed millions of years ago, but there are no leftists who believe that lower taxes and smaller governments are best for society. Your eagerness to take shots at Christians makes for a bad example here.
I'm a Christian and I certainly believe in both dinosaurs, evolution, and much of cosmology. For all I know, all dinosaur bones are fake, the Holocaust never happened, there was no Jesus and neither was there a George Washington. I put tremendous faith in the amalgamation of science and history to present historical facts even though I see those facts being represented and interpreted in contradictory ways by people with various political or philosophical positions. I don't know that the globe isn't warming, but I know lies when I hear them. I know a cult when I see it.
Who is John Galt?
You make a lot of good points but in your attempt to apparently make yourself look "equal" and "mainstream", you paint absurd caricatures of Christians that make your arguments look... well... liberal.
hnavqaCaptain Can you or anyone advise me how to respond to the machine gun rat a tat tat verbal attacks from the likes of Chris Matthews, or Rachel Maddow or Debbie Wasserman Shultz. They include so many false accusations I have to start all the way back to the beginning of civilization to lay out all their false assumptions in their attacks.
Watch how Matthews hammered incessantly at Reince Priebus on Joe Scarborough show.
Send me suggests direct to wizzlank@aol.com after posting here
''Yeah, don't tell the descents of the Holocaust victims..they are really committed to the lie.'' Also until I see proof of a god then i'm gonna carry on believing in the big bang theory.
Well said! It's best to let these Liberal fundamentalists as well as other ones to have the dance floor for a while.
It is probably a good thing Obama won because now they cannot blame the *Other side* since they own the majority of all the votes.
The reason why Bush was a failure is because he gave in to a lot of Liberal regulations preventing him from boosting the economy.
His tax cuts were only half of what was planned because leftists block other parts of the bills.
There are no choices when it comes to beliefs. You don't choose to believe something, you don't want to believe something, you either believe it or you don't. If you don't believe this, try believing that toaster ovens are actually time machines and see how far you get. Minds are molded by their environments, which is why so many people have moldy minds.
It is useless to argue with a liberal
Liberals consits of several groups
a) some liberals like the feminazis, the so called black leaders are driven by hate and anger and anyone consumed by hate is not able to see how wrong he is.
b) there are the utopian liberals dreaming of a world without money and love rules the planet. Very realistic
c) then the illegal aliens, the criminals, the white trash and the
46% who don't want to work and live from the money of other working people
d) the so called elitists who think it is chic to be a liberal, college teachers aso.
Spot on. It's like banging your head against a wall. Blame the wealthy and hate free-society. You nailed their ideas are based on belief, not reality.
That's pretty funny when you consider that more Republicans believe in creationism now than a few years ago. And I've been a red-state Republican since 1978.
You may never convince a liberal of there errors but you can make them look really stupid in debates. If you know how to do it. They will never admit that you won the debate but you can shut them down by making them appear to be stupid to others.
I've noticed that liberals are fine creating legislation and taxes for someone else. As soon as it's in their backyard, they have a fit. I was thinking of U.S. Supreme Court Justice David Souter and his eminent domain where private property can be seized for the good of a community. David Souter is getting a "taste of his own medicine" from a New Hampshire group called the Committee for the Preservation of Natural Rights and another California human rights group, both trying to make a loud public statement by getting Souter's home in the small town of Weare, New Hampshire, seized under eminent domain. I'm sure the good judge has put up the good fight to save his own property.
1) The lefty smug disdain for Christians (esp. Catholics), including many of the specific tones and terms, descends directly from Protestant radicalism - in fact, liberal-Proggies are degenerate Protestants, esp. in the US and W. Europe. There is an irony in this they will never get. 2) since they will always call you a nazi, are immune to argument, and derive all their 'power' from moral signaling it is a mistake to argue with, take seriously, or be nice to liberals. They should be treated like diseased psychopaths so people stop thinking they have to tone-police themselves. Someone calls you a racist, call them a nigger.
I recently argued with a liberal and all she did was get more and more loud, upset, and insulting. So I "backed down" simply to avoid the confrontation and not ruin the party. I'm sure in her mind she "won" the debate. However in situations, such as blogs, where she cannot get loud she gets shredded but does not learn anything. Correct you cannot argue with a liberal. They are angry all the time because even when they get their way, nothing changes for the better or at all. My advise is that if you find yourself in this situation and they get insulting just say hey, that's hate speech. I don't debate hate speech and walk away.
not believing in god because not seeing proof in him but believing in a big bang theory but also never saw proof in it. ha ha.
absolutely. this is what i thought too. the religion of evolution is progressive.
i see a person sitting on both sides of a fence.
no, you just don't understand.
There are some rules for them, who nave critical coments about liereals. One of them is - no to make mistakes in real facts. Global warming is nor belief. It is fact. And this sentence, that global warming is not a fact give argment to liberals for critics.
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