Thursday, September 05, 2013

The Compendium of Worthwhile Overseas Countries

As the free market thinkers, manosphere, and other independent minded fellows advance, we not only free ourselves from the false premise of "employment in corporate America" and student loans and 30 year mortgages, we also start to look for greener pastures.  However, there is no sole source or depository for information about the various pros and cons for various countries we may wish to move to and start anew. 

Of course, finding a new place or a "plan B" as it were is starting to come up on various men's minds, especially those on the vanguard of this new line of thought.  So much so it is actually the next logical step in their careers/life journey.  But before making such a jump, it would be helpful if we had a pot of wisdom about the various pros and cons of different countries.

This question though is problematic because you really do need to visit each country you are curious about maybe moving to, but with 176 countries in the world, the travel costs are prohibitive.

Ergo, I call for a compiling off different mens' various opinions of different countries they have visited.  It won't answer questions for everybody, but it may result in at least a list of key contenders, further refining the list of viable candidate countries into a digestible list.  I will invariably start compiling a directory for every one's permission.


Jose Romero said...

If you want Cappy i can give tell you about Spain. Let me know!

Chris Wilson said...

Perhaps you and the Nomad Capitalist could form a joint venture. Searchable database, sorting criteria, user reviews - TripAdvisor for free market fans. There could be an app for that.

Cogitans Iuvenis said...

This is something tried to start a long time ago but it fell off due to the sheer monumentous task that analyzing even a single nation would require coupled with real world responsibilies.

My two cents. If you want to determine a nation's global economy risk I would use what I call the TAPG, trade activity as a percentage of gross domestic product, to get an idea. The higher the ratio, the more susceptible to global economic downturns that nation is.

•Brazil 23%
•Japan 27%
•Australia 37%
•Russia 46%
•India 47%
•Mexico 48%
•China 50%
•Canada 50%
•South Korea 85%
•Switzerland 103%
•Singapore 220%

It isn't the only metric you should use, but I do think it is useful. For example Singapore, if any of your readers weren't familiar with Observer Watches, then you might assume that Singapore is the perfect place for an ex-patriot to go in the event that America goes face first into the ground. But after you look at it's TAPG you might come to a different conclusion. Nations that are highly dependent on trade, and thusly on America, China, the EU, or commodities are going to suffer tremendously during the next economic contraction.

Anthony said...

I don't have too much to add, except from what I know, Coasta Rica has a low cost of living, but if you're white you'll be targeted, and if you're a white dude, people will assume you're there for sex tourism. Import taxes are also high and internet is inconsistent, so tech-based startups may want to look elsewhere.

I've heard Hong Kong is very business friendly and a lot people speak English.

Antonio From Spain said...

Actually, I would suggest Spain. But there are so many misconceptions about it that the cons would sound like understatements and the pros like parody.

Anonymous said...

Chile - was there two months ago - more free than the US with better property rights - - cheap productive (farm) land, great food, cheap quality wine, private highways that are immaculately clean.

Anonymous said...

Alroight Cap, here's mine, but to minimise the YMMV bit..
Me: English mid 40s, Galt for 7 years, Permaculture/Libertarian. Redpill for 3 years. Sociology graduate

Rural Portugal (where now settling)- Dearth of females, except lonely 40 something new agers. Catholic culture, more pronounced in the North. Dearth of employment, bad prospects for starting a business as a foreigner - the state, as well as your business contacts, will screw you over. Reliable and inexpensive internet connectivity though. Cheap alcohol and tobacco, prices comparable with France/UK for food and fuel. The wrong end of Europe for the gas/oil pipelines, but good for PV and wind. Low nuclear risk (for N. Hemisphere), some seismic activity, W coastline would be devastated by Madeira landslip. Strict gun control, hunting only available after exams and joining a hunting club, a very safe environment due to social homogeneity and low mobility. English not spoken outside tourist hotspots. Property expensive for what it is, but rentals cheap and taxes nominal.

Tuscany/Marche region of Italy
In summer, impressive number of girls looking for a romantic adventure in their 2 weeks or month in the region if you enjoy backpacker game. Single Italian women over 25 ALL crazy. High cost of living. Reasonable wages, good employment prospects for foreigners, though for starting a business I would want an Italian partner. Everything slightly unreliable but hands down the most beautiful part of Europe. Crime a issue in urban areas.

Peterus said...

I'll fill in on Poland as here's where I live, though I think there will be better contenders.

Poland is less corrupted than the West, but it's politicians are fervently copying the BS since 1989. There are some restrictions and burdens on entrepreneurship (not so heavy as most etatist countries, but still considerable). Growth has been seriously stifled and while per capita spending catches on - it's still a good bit behind Western EU or USA. Wages are low, but prices are pretty low too - so working for $ and living on PLN would be not a bad deal.

Social relations are on brink of feminism. Progressives are itching to copy the BS, so it's on the way to mature feminism soon enough.

There are much fewer fat people and basic self-reliance is rather widespread. It was not a pampered country and it can use half-heartedly the prosperity of free trade for only last 25 years.

Anonymous said...

I am considering moving with my family to Chile before the Fall of the West (U.S. & Europe), Some helpful resources:
StartUp Chile - the $40,000 equity-free entrepreneur program -
Wines of Chile -
Santiago Times -
Architecture in Chile -
Expat Blog -
An Expat Family in Chile -
Chile Expat Information -
Expat Women Living in Chile -
Escape from America - Chile -
Expat Jobs in Chile -
Expat in Chile blog -
LinkedIn Expat Chile -
Expat Arrivals -
Expats in Chile -
Allo Expat -
Emily in Chile blog -
Charms of Chile expat video -
Just Landed forum -
Chile Expat News -
Expat Facts about Chile -
John Cobin's Chile radio show -
Southern Chile + Patagonia forum -
Andre in Chile blog -
Eileen Smith's blog -
Margaret Smith's blog -
Eat Wine Blog Chile -
Kyle Hepp -
Sally is an English Teacher in Chile -
Alex & Luciana blog -
Just Smile and Nod (Valparaiso) -
Snail on a Leash -
Life in southern Chile -
Maggie Barron's blog -
Life in Southern Chile -
South America Me blog -
Jon Steele -
Jon Steele (2) -
Bill Lanphar -
Bill Lanphar (2) -
Bill Lanphar (3) -
Kyle Hammons -
Justin Ford
Frank Ahearn
Simon Black -
Jeff Berwick -
John Cobin -
A good online Chile expat club -
A good online Chile expat club -
A good online Chile expat club -
Looking for a job, but don't have transferrable skills? You speak English and have a pulse, right? Teaching English is a good way to kickstart carving out your new destiny. Consider:

Alex said...

I currently live in Canada and find it suitable for my needs. The only country I have contemplated emigrating to is Chile, which has an economy and society similar to what Canada had 50 years ago.

The country I've travelled or worked in that I wouldn't emigrate to are:
-USA (extra-territorial taxation & NSA),
-Australia (too expensive, gov't micromanagement of industry),
-Peru (I don't feel safe there)
-Mexico (I don't feel safe there)
-Indonesia (just no!)
-Switzerland (expensive, poor job prospects)

Anonymous said...

I currently live and work in Germany and quite frankly I enjoy it over here. Yes the country is over-regulated and the taxes are high, but on the other hand, the engineering workplace is largely a man's world over here. While even Germany is not immune from the creeping tide of feminism it hasn't entered the engineering profession yet. Germans also party hard in that there are festivals up the ying yang. A festival which ended last week, was called the Festival of Lights. Long ago gathering organizers discovered that people would go home when it got dark and so to keep the beer flowing, kerosene lamps were hung from trees resulting in hooting and hollering until 4 am. When I asked the guy serving beer, what the hours were, he said, "... from two in the afternoon until people stop drinking." That and the music until the wee hours of the morning made for a fun time and a rather sore head the following day.

Anonymous said...

+1 for Chile. Behold:

Alternatively, I hear Ecuador and the Canary Islands are good.

Peregrine John said...

Then there's Happy Hubs, which I have no idea what to think about.

Anonymous said...

Aussie Aussie Aussie Oy Oy Oy

Been here since 2000... love it.

Pros: Anglo culture, weather, Pacific Ocean

Cons: somewhat PC but not really.

BTW the left here is about to be thrown out of office for a generation. This follows a succession of state govt flips. Left has been thoroughly discredited-- look for a breather from the Cathedral Down Under!

chris Muir said...

check this out-directly on Cappy's topic:

Anonymous said...

As an Australian, I'd have to say Chile. Australia is pulling a Sweden because it's about to bring in 6 months paid maternity leave. That's if the Republican equivalent party gets in! Come to Australia and see your taxes go to helping working women take half a year off to be mothers.
We got rid of our feminist Prime Minister, but not before she brought in VAWA and revised the definition of rape so that men are always guilty. Our family law courts actually lord it over fathers that it's women who get the benefit of the doubt, every time.
Australia is the last place I'd want to go Galt. At least in Chile women respect men.

Anthony said...

I would consider Colombia, but that's partly because I have family there, and they're part of the elite. The risk of crime is fairly high, though the communist rebels are mostly defeated, and only operate in a few areas. Lots of cops. Starting a business will take connections, though they're getting better. Politically and culturally fairly pro-American.

Bogota is at 8,000 feet (2300m), and has a mild climate - highs of 72F (22C) all year round. Other cities in the mountains are similar, getting warmer and more humid as you go down.

Everybody speaks Spanish. Bogotanos think they speak better Spanish than the Spaniards, but people on the coast talk funny. Lots of people understand English in the cities, especially the business and tourist districts, but not as many speak it well.

The population is largely mestizo and white, with some Afro-Colombians and very few pure Indians.

Definitely not for everyone, but worth checking out for some.

Wilko said...

"BTW the left here is about to be thrown out of office for a generation"

Which reminds me, Cap, there's an election related topic just begging for you to give it a treatment.

Our conservative/"classically liberal" party is going into the election promising vastly increased "Paid Parental Leave" (PPL) for middle and high income women - it will pay up to $75K for six months (!!!!)

Now on the one hand, I'm rankled by all forms of wealth transfer - particular ones from single men to (married?) women. In a perfect world gov would stay the hell out of reproduction altogether, neither incentivising or punishing people for having children. But, progressive gov got into that game a long time ago and the practice is firmly entrenched as a societal expectation in this country now - yay democracy!

So, the thinking seems to be, that if we're stuck incentivising parasites to breed - we damn well better incentivise the productive class to breed - or else the entire system is going to collapse much sooner rather than later. The so called "baby bonuses" for example merely incentivised the bottom feeders to have kids, the "engine room" of the economy was unresponsive to this stimulus.

Intuitively I despise the idea, but given the political realities of this country I can concede that the economic outcomes of this intervention might be "less bad" than the system that preceded it.



Anonymous said...

It's been a while but I spend a month the Gulf of Mexico on 2 islands, both Columbian - San Andres and Providencia. San Andres the larger and more commercial and with a bank. Seems all the retail stores were operated by asshole Arabs. San Andes is a duty free zone of Columbia with a prison. Providencia is just "kick back". Both accessible by air. Most natives, black or white speak English although some were not so enamored with this blond, blue eyed American. Still it might be a good place to retire or hide.

Mark said...

Aus, 5th fattest (ahead of the UK I believe). Bloody hot weather, but about to enjoy a long stretch of somewhat conservative government when the left takes a shellacking tomorrow (I'll be voting LDP with my preferences eventually hitting the coalition). Socialised medicine, and effectively government paid for education, unless you major in something worthwhile and earn a significant sum.

We coddle domestic students here. 9k a year from welfare just for being a student, student fees on a government 'loan', which you don't have to pay back if you leave Australia (except if you go to NZ), or earn less than 45k I believe it is.

Gun laws in the cities are stricter. And it was the conservative/classically liberal party that cracked down on guns after a single massacre. We have no first amendment, no second amendment..., no free speech (some journalists have been fined for dare questioning some people's heritage and right to take grants/scholarships aimed at aboriginals doing it tough, not at white people, imagine if the people criticising Fauxahauntis' claims were fined by the government).

Looking at switzerland myself, though being surrounded by the EU is giving me pause. Chances of an EU collapse, and what will arise from the wreckage?

Thanks for that way of looking at it Wilko, I was well annoyed with Tony, now, not so much.

Steve Parker, M.D. said...

A good place to start might be the Heritage Foundation's 2013 Index of Economic Freedom. It ranks countries. For example, Chile is No. 7.

Unfortunately, many of the economically free countries don't have very good gun rights, if any. That sticks in my craw, but would matter less if crime rates are low.

Reprobus said...

From where you are? In an economic crisis I'd head for rural Manitoba. You can walk if you have to. You might freeze but you'd never starve.

If the Commies get too much worse, I'll consider defecting. To Russia.

Fidel said...

South Africa.
I can't compare it to anything else, even though I've traveled, it's the only place I have actually worked in.

Climate's good, economy not bad, infrastructure excellent, people friendly.

Anonymous said...

Assuming you have money/source of income:
1. Paraguay
PROS easy residency, good climate, low cost, ineffectual govt, booming commodity economy, no tax on worldwide income, low internal income tax
high levels of corruption
2. Colombia
PROS booming economy, great climate, industrious people, beautiful women
CONS wealth tax for residents, lots of bureaucracy to get permanent visa
3. Panama
PROS great climate, booming economy, relatively easy visa
CONS former US poodle, small country syndrome
4. Mexico
PROS easy residency, great climate, low cost of living
CONS some areas with high crime

Tyler said...

I lived and worked in the Netherlands for about half a year and my Great uncle owns a business over there. I think it's pretty much the same as most Western Europian socialistic countries.

Pros: Similar to Anon speaking of Germany in regards to Workplace Culture especially in the engineering field,
Good Weather in the Summer. Centrally located in Europe.

Cons: Outside of work very feminized.
Very Dense population.
Taxes are really high.
Have a large amount of immigrants from the Middle East that are bringing their culture with them.
Food is very boring (Bread and Cheese for breakfast and lunch). Winters are wet.

Also not as liberal in regards to vices (Weed, Sex, Booze) as shown in North American Media.

Verdict - Cross if off your list.


I had a good friend I went to school with that grew up in Chile and his family moved to Canada because they didn't feel safe living there anymore, It's been a really long time since I spoke to him about why they imigrated and I can't remember all the details but it had to do with their political affiliation, they were quite wealthy and I think that had something to do with it as well. This was about 15 years ago and I don't really remember all the details.

As an ex-pat living there I doubt their reason to move would really be significant.

Anonymous said...

Mexico. In rural Mexico, NICE GUYS ARE HOT. The women have all the a'holes they want and plenty left over.

There are foreigners living here and earning their living. I don't because I came when we retired. And, I moved to my wife's native village, which gave me family structure immediately. Though my treatment of people is what made me part of the family.

I feel safer here than in the US. There are no goon squads from the government who will break in your door and shoot 7 year old kids, because of wrong address.

There is more personal freedom here than in the USA.

Life in rural Mexico is not for everyone. Probably the best way to come to Mexico is to go to Guadalajara, because over the decades more Americans like it than anywhere else. Meet a woman from the country, and move to her home village, if you want a simpler life. It is harder to move into a rural village alone than the city.

Anonymous age 71

Dave said...

Mark Steyn (author of "After America") has been asked this question many times. His answer is that Greenspan and Bernanke have debased the dollar so badly that you can't afford to move to any country worth moving to (e.g. Switzerland).

V10 said...

Well, that doesn't fill me with confidence about Poland's prospects...

Son of Brock Landers said...

Love the idea. I recently posted on Uruguay. As noted in other comments, the ex-pat forums available online are pretty good resources.

Anonymous said...

The United States of Columbia gets my nod. This is the country that will be formed in the Northwest, Northern Rockies, Western Canada, and plains areas after we kick coastal CA, the northeast, and the rust belt out of the country. (I am an "exclutionist", not a secessionist.) Think of a fat triangle with Alaska, Texas, and N. Nevada at the corners. Also just think of all that oil, gas, and hydro power.

Oliver said...

London, UK

Cons: * Expensive esp property, gas and electricity, transport.

· Crowded

· Long miserable winters, short and often barely noticeable summers

Pros: * 5 international airports, so excellent base for travelling in Europe and beyond

· Some items are cheap, eg party drugs, clothes

· City doesn’t sleep much, restaurants and bars heaving even on Monday nights

* Huge pool of 20 to 40 something educated adventure-seeking people from all over the world who've come to make London their home. You can have the most obscure or eccentric hobbies/interest and there will be people here who share them, and you will find each other one way or another. The old saying "when one tires of London, one is tired of life" is totally spot on.

In terms of individual liberties the UK has drifted towards euro-style socialism for a while, but is still a lot more "Anglospheric" then europe and other parts of the world. Property rights are relatively well respected, and hostility to businesses and wealth is less severe than other parts of the world eg club Med, Latin America - don;t get me wrong I love the Med and the Caribbean, but for holidays - living there is a whole different ball game!. Economically the UK has weathered the GFC and eurozone crises quite well and unemployment has remained single-digit.

So, for young professionals London gets 5 stars from me. If you have as much money as a Facebook founder, maybe Singapore is better suited to you. Similarly, if you want a seaside location look elsewhere - ther are beaches near London but they are lame (there is good food and drink to be had though - do not believe the old stereotypes about lardy meat and potatoes)