No one with even half an eye open can argue with the author's facts regarding a Father's lack of status or rights and how that interacts with the overall enjoyment of the institution.
Yet me thinks he "doth protest too much" about the relative happiness some claim later in life after it is too late to do anything about the decision not to have children.
Not every family follows the current liberal/feminist beliefs that the old should be locked away and children are better enjoyed in the imagination or extended family only.
I am quite satisfied that so far at least my family name has survived the age of Feminism and may continue on with my son long after the dried up hags are gone.
At least now I know some part of my values will continue on, while theirs will not.
If men had the degree of power and authority over their families and marriages they had prior to a century ago, and if we still recognized family as a matter of genetic identity and legacy that it was until around the same time, I'm pretty sure that the "marriage and children bring unhappiness" would not look the way it looks today.
As it stands, I wouldn't marry a Western woman if there was a gun to my head. On the other hand, the idea of dying in half a century with nothing but a wad of inflationary cash and some long-faded memories to show for it stinks of futility.
And then there is (ironically) the best of both worlds. My ex ended our marriage after sixteen years, about seven years ago. Now all three kids regard her as the home-wrecker and have far better relationships with me than with her. And since I'm single I have plenty of time to play, both with and without them. Even though I still pay cs on the youngest the ex is always broke but I can always scratch up bucks for entertainment or shopping or whatever. I may (or may not) have another woman in my house when I'm old but I can probably count on plenty of grandkids. Don't forget, the traditional retirement plan was to have lots of kids and stay on good terms with some of them.
Listing the benefits of avoiding fatherhood is like listing the benefits of avoiding living. If you don't live you won't feel pain, you won't have to work, you won't have to deal with liberals. There is something to be said about strategic retreat, living to fight another day, choosing your battles, but there should be nothing to say about surrender, about suicide. It is an understatement to say that many western women are currently undesirable, but women, especially young ones, can be molded and if done right, will follow their husbands lead. We should be discussing winning over young women to be good wives and mothers instead of giving up.
Everything said in that article may be true. Here is my reality:
I have three adult sons. All are gainfully employed. All three are engineers. One was an Eagle scout. Two are highly valued are the companies at which they work (the other just graduated this year and is just starting out).
They are now good friends as well as my sons, in large part because they appreciate the job I did raising them. (They were not my friends when they were kids, because I was there dad, not their friend.)
They are colleagues as well as friends. When we do stuff together it is often creative projects. (One son does photography for my writing projects.)
When I am on my deathbed (as we all will be someday) I know that (assuming my wife has passed) the hand that will be holding mine will be whichever one of them is closest. They will be there because they want to be there. It will not someone that is being paid to hold it.
Is being a father worth it? Your mileage may vary, but I would not trade fatherhood for anything else in life.
The risks of fatherhood have grown greatly in the last few decades. There is no argument from me. But, ROK didn't mention any of the rewards of being a dad. The value of raising kids is priceless. I know you're an economist and all, but, there is seriously no way to put a price tag, in today's dollars,on having an influence in the next generation and possibly further. Even if my writing never gets recognized as the period-defining, sage wisdom that it is and I have to write my own Wikipedia page, I know that someone could have a picture of me in their house somewhere and show their friends their ancient ancestor. Someone will talk about me and my story will be a little part of their history.
I can't believe how devalued the genealogical legacy of biological children has become. Some people have told me outright that it doesn't even matter to them. I have a grandfather who fought in WW2 and nearly passed commando training at the age of 40 when an old injury sidelined him. I'm nothing, compared to that, but I carry a portion of his genes. I owe it to him to do what I can.
The problem is, most men don't know how to be husbands and fathers. The first job is to pick a good wife and most can't even do that. Hint, she's not at the bar picking you up at 3AM.
I see myself in my two boys eyes and I have hope for the future - at least as far as they're concerned; at least there will be two men in the world. You can pretend that you don't care about the future, I don't have that luxury.
I know three children who grew up in alcoholic homes with near constant verbal abuse and frequent violence. None of these now-grown kids has any interest in having children. I wonder why this is so. All the kids turned out to be super responsible, law abiding, gainfully employed, etc etc. Is it possible the children of evil drunks are afraid they will turn into the kind of parents they had? I wonder about this because I was one of those three kids.
NOTE TO MEAN, DRUNKEN PARENTS:
Just Fucking kill yourself! Try death by alcohol poisoning, you might like it.
In the west being a husband and father used to be a symbol of status for a man, now it makes him an object of ridcule. Until that changes fewer and fewer men are going to see it as being worth doing. There is no "winning over good women" things are not going to change until women can no longer pass on the costs of their choices to men, both as individuals and as a group, and that won't happen until the sugar daddy welfare state is truly broke. Enjoy the decline.
10 comments:
No one with even half an eye open can argue with the author's facts regarding a Father's lack of status or rights and how that interacts with the overall enjoyment of the institution.
Yet me thinks he "doth protest too much" about the relative happiness some claim later in life after it is too late to do anything about the decision not to have children.
Not every family follows the current liberal/feminist beliefs that the old should be locked away and children are better enjoyed in the imagination or extended family only.
I am quite satisfied that so far at least my family name has survived the age of Feminism and may continue on with my son long after the dried up hags are gone.
At least now I know some part of my values will continue on, while theirs will not.
If men had the degree of power and authority over their families and marriages they had prior to a century ago, and if we still recognized family as a matter of genetic identity and legacy that it was until around the same time, I'm pretty sure that the "marriage and children bring unhappiness" would not look the way it looks today.
As it stands, I wouldn't marry a Western woman if there was a gun to my head. On the other hand, the idea of dying in half a century with nothing but a wad of inflationary cash and some long-faded memories to show for it stinks of futility.
Oh, to live in a culture that isn't dying...
And then there is (ironically) the best of both worlds. My ex ended our marriage after sixteen years, about seven years ago. Now all three kids regard her as the home-wrecker and have far better relationships with me than with her. And since I'm single I have plenty of time to play, both with and without them. Even though I still pay cs on the youngest the ex is always broke but I can always scratch up bucks for entertainment or shopping or whatever. I may (or may not) have another woman in my house when I'm old but I can probably count on plenty of grandkids. Don't forget, the traditional retirement plan was to have lots of kids and stay on good terms with some of them.
Listing the benefits of avoiding fatherhood is like listing the benefits of avoiding living. If you don't live you won't feel pain, you won't have to work, you won't have to deal with liberals. There is something to be said about strategic retreat, living to fight another day, choosing your battles, but there should be nothing to say about surrender, about suicide. It is an understatement to say that many western women are currently undesirable, but women, especially young ones, can be molded and if done right, will follow their husbands lead. We should be discussing winning over young women to be good wives and mothers instead of giving up.
@Anonymous
Very funny. Hee, hee.
Oh, wait a minute, you are serious. Now, that is funny.
Anonymous age 71
Everything said in that article may be true. Here is my reality:
I have three adult sons. All are gainfully employed. All three are engineers. One was an Eagle scout. Two are highly valued are the companies at which they work (the other just graduated this year and is just starting out).
They are now good friends as well as my sons, in large part because they appreciate the job I did raising them. (They were not my friends when they were kids, because I was there dad, not their friend.)
They are colleagues as well as friends. When we do stuff together it is often creative projects. (One son does photography for my writing projects.)
When I am on my deathbed (as we all will be someday) I know that (assuming my wife has passed) the hand that will be holding mine will be whichever one of them is closest. They will be there because they want to be there. It will not someone that is being paid to hold it.
Is being a father worth it? Your mileage may vary, but I would not trade fatherhood for anything else in life.
The risks of fatherhood have grown greatly in the last few decades. There is no argument from me. But, ROK didn't mention any of the rewards of being a dad. The value of raising kids is priceless. I know you're an economist and all, but, there is seriously no way to put a price tag, in today's dollars,on having an influence in the next generation and possibly further. Even if my writing never gets recognized as the period-defining, sage wisdom that it is and I have to write my own Wikipedia page, I know that someone could have a picture of me in their house somewhere and show their friends their ancient ancestor. Someone will talk about me and my story will be a little part of their history.
I can't believe how devalued the genealogical legacy of biological children has become. Some people have told me outright that it doesn't even matter to them. I have a grandfather who fought in WW2 and nearly passed commando training at the age of 40 when an old injury sidelined him. I'm nothing, compared to that, but I carry a portion of his genes. I owe it to him to do what I can.
The problem is, most men don't know how to be husbands and fathers. The first job is to pick a good wife and most can't even do that. Hint, she's not at the bar picking you up at 3AM.
I see myself in my two boys eyes and I have hope for the future - at least as far as they're concerned; at least there will be two men in the world. You can pretend that you don't care about the future, I don't have that luxury.
I know three children who grew up in alcoholic homes with near constant verbal abuse and frequent violence. None of these now-grown kids has any interest in having children. I wonder why this is so. All the kids turned out to be super responsible, law abiding, gainfully employed, etc etc. Is it possible the children of evil drunks are afraid they will turn into the kind of parents they had? I wonder about this because I was one of those three kids.
NOTE TO MEAN, DRUNKEN PARENTS:
Just Fucking kill yourself! Try death by alcohol poisoning, you might like it.
In the west being a husband and father used to be a symbol of status for a man, now it makes him an object of ridcule. Until that changes fewer and fewer men are going to see it as being worth doing. There is no "winning over good women" things are not going to change until women can no longer pass on the costs of their choices to men, both as individuals and as a group, and that won't happen until the sugar daddy welfare state is truly broke. Enjoy the decline.
When I am on my deathbed (as we all will be someday)
Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to survive long enough until the SENS anti-aging therapies are available.
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