Friday, February 15, 2013

Persuading and Debating Leftists

Martel had a good response/post to my Liberal Zombie Apocalypse on how to engage, debate, and ultimately convert leftists.

My most successful tactic has been betting, but literally, less than 5% of the leftists

1.  honor their bet
2.  admit they were wrong despite conclusive and pre-agreed-upon proof proving them wrong

I cannot emphasize enough just how much of a mental condition most liberals have.  They are in denial.  And it REALLY has been like talking to a child at times where I say

"the sky is blue."

and their response is

"no it's not"

it's just we're looking at economic data instead of the sky.

It gets to the point debating or even trying to engage leftists is a futile endeavor, one of which not only wastes precious finite seconds of my life, but one that raises my blood pressure.  Engage, debate and try to reason with them at your own risk.


Matthew Walker said...

Persuading a leftist is like trying to convince a lifelong Iggles fan from Souf Phiwwy that the Redskins deserve his blind loyalty instead. It's a category error.

Anonymous said...

I'd rather pound a four penny nail through my right testicle than waste a second of life conversing with an asshole lefty!!

Bub said...

I used to argue. I don't anymore. Fuck 'em.

Double E said...

"It gets to the point debating or even trying to engage leftists is a futile endeavor, one of which not only wastes precious finite seconds of my life, but one that raises my blood pressure. "

EXACTLY. That's why I don't bother with it. Why cast our pearls before swine?

heresolong said...

Case in point.

Canadian friends: Why do you need guns? They should be banned.

Me: In Britain they banned guns and the violent crime rate skyrocketed until it was higher than the US.

CF: That's not true.

Me: Yeah, it is, here's the stats.

CF: The stats are wrong because of the way crime is reported in different countries.

Me: Here's evidence that they aren't wrong

CF: The crime rate skyrocketed because of demographic issues, not because of guns.

Me throwing up my hands in disgust.

Anonymous said...

Never try to teach a pig to sing, it only wastes your time and annoys the pig.

‘Reality’ Doug said...

wrt @heresolong's post

Those are some people skills, having friends like that. Or maybe that is a polite euphemism? Business is personal is business. We have been conditioned to not be and have true, meaningful friends, IMHO. Doing so would be to rival the establishment, so we safely compartmentalize between business and personal, which is complete effing bullshit.

Martel said...

Thanks for the link, Cap. It's an honor.

You're experience mirror my own when dealing with the Anointed. That's part of why in my post I say that the only reasons to talk politics with them are for practice dealing with the mindset or to persuade anyone listening in. Hoping to persuade and Anointed leftist is indeed casting pearls before swine.

heresolong, your dialogue is a difficult one. My strategy is to pre-emptively avoid it. You can play dueling studies for hours, and there's no way to know which studies controlled for which variables, etc. We're likely to take the NRA's studies at face value, they do the same with Brady.

Instead, I argue principle. On guns it's the A is A principle of human nature. People respond to incentives. Just because something's banned doesn't mean it will go away (lefties understand this regarding the Drug War).

You can also use their ostensible mistrust of authority against them (i.e. Public Enemy's 911 is a joke, Body Count's Cop Killer). If the police are as corrupt, racist, and brutal as you say they are, then why would you want people to ENTIRELY entrus their safety to the cops?

There's more (framing, etc.), but this is just a comment so I can only write so much.

Anonymous said...

Liberalism is a parasitic ideology. It needs the Conservative host to survive. Once infected, the colony spreads and gradually sucks the life-giving nutrients from its host. The host is left with a decision, destroy or be destroyed. We find ourselves at this very juncture today. The debate is over. The question is, what should be the treatment.

Anonymous said...

more and more i simply do not engage leftists at all. it really is a form of self harm. best thing we can do is enjoy the decline, build awesome lives for ourselves and in the unlikely event a liberal wants to know how we have done it....either dont tell them or make up a convoluted scenario and watch them do it.

LordSomber said...

I'm around younger people often and I just try to point out things in a logical, common-sense way. I never label the issues "left" or "right." But I have been persuasive.
This is how I myself solidified where I stand. (I've been libertarian all along, even when I thought I was liberal.) Reading and being exposed to ideas without the labels, and just going back to the ones that made the most sense.

As for debating with actual leftists, I often reject their premises outright. I leave the burden on them to persuade me.

Anonymous said...

The key belief of the Anointed is not "I am more than what I am." The key belief is "I am more than you."

There is no purpose in attempting to engage an Anointed one. They don't consider you human.

Anonymous said...

Leftists are literally brain damaged. They couldn't survive in a stone age, bronze age, iron age, dark age, or even Renasissance environment. Only the transient wealth of modernity allows them to exist.

James Wolfe said...

The only way to convince a liberal that he is wrong is to let him do things his own way and watch him fail. But even in failing he will try to rationalize his own failure as being somehow your fault and not his, so it's best to step back and not offer too much advice. The only thing that might convince him that you are right and he is wrong is by succeeding where he has failed when both of you are working from the same set of circumstances. But if his brainwashing by fellow liberals has been complete he will still not accept blaim for his failure but will be jealous of your success and will want others to punish you for it and reward him for his failure to make things fair. So it's best some times to just sit back and observe and enjoy the decline.

Doktor Bill said...

I gave up teaching pigs to sing long ago. If forced to engage fools, I just mock them by doing what they do, go off on a tangent after interrupting them; don't let them finish a thought or sentence, then call them racist. It can be fun.

Martel said...

@ Anonymous "The key belief of the Anointed is not 'I am more than what I am." The key belief is 'I am more than you.'"

Same thing. We're objectively equal in the Declaration sense of the term (obviously not in terms of abilities), the formulation being I=U (I am equal to you). To the Anointed i>I (my perception of who I am is greater than who I actually am), as well as i>U (I believe I'm worth more than you). The Benighted simply reverse it and think i<U.

An Anointed may see me as sub-human, but that can make it even MORE important to interact with them (if there are witnesses). When a sub-human barbarian like myself makes a Superior Being look like an immature, ignorant twit it can be great fun, and change some minds.

I don't think I explained myself particularly well in regards to how to handle studies and/or facts when dealing with lefties, so tonight I'll be doing a post on it. If you're interested, check my site by tomorrow morning.

Anonymous said...

They are conspiracy believing, superstitious, ignoramuses. Thus, peasants. They would fit in anywhere in th. 3rd world today or anywhere in history.