Sunday, March 17, 2013

Where the Good Men Are

I took inventory of my single male friends.

Nearly all of them are 30+, all of them own their own house, all are gainfully employed, and though not all Ambercrombie and Fitch models, not one of them is obese or below what I would consider a 6. 

They also all have at least ONE unique eccentricity about them.  Many of them are ballroom dancers.  Two of them are pilots. One belongs in a band.  A fourth is starting his third serious company.  And another has taught himself two languages because he managed to retire at 42.  It is because of their eccentricities they are part of my crew of friends.  They are interesting and significantly-above-average intelligent people and conversation with them is the most enjoyable aspect of my life. 

However, there is one who stands out in this category of "Captain's single male friends."  The reason he stands out is he is the only one who actively pursues dating.

Though 43, he is in good enough shape and charming enough with the ladies he manages to date 25 year old women on average.  While this is certainly fun, his long term goal is to get married.  However, he faces a quandary.  Most 20 something girls are immature and not marriage material.  They are pain to date and are not capable of the level of intelligent conversation he needs.  To find women his maturity level, he needs to date older, "older" to him meaning 30+.  But when he does there is inevitably a deal-breaker, usually another guy's kid or a financial wreck.  Thus, he still plugs along, filling his date card with 24 year old's, occasionally wandering into 30+ territory only to have her life-mistakes return him to the younger ladies.

Now you would think "this is a great situation" and he is having the time of his life.  But alas, my 43 year old friend is starting to suffer from "Player Burnout."  He no longer is excited about the prospects of a new date.  He no longer has the giddiness and hope of taking out yet another 26 year old.  And when they text him their naked pictures he merely shows me and the others guys and says, "meh."  In the past year I have seen his interest in other hobbies supplant his interest of women, and if you were to ask him today if he'd rather smoke a cigar than go on another date with a girl he met online.  In short you are witnessing the last dying moments of a player, much like watching the final stages of a star gone supernova, before it collapses into nothingness.

When he does go "supernova," however, there will be no more players, let alone men looking to date in my crew.  And with his resignation from "the game" he will pull himself out of the dating market and there will be one less "good guy" out there for the ladies.  It then dawned on me that the answer to:

"Where have all the good men gone?"

was staring me right in the face.  I can answer that question by simply explaining what all my single male friends do.

"Mike" the retired at 42 year old has a lifestyle akin to mine.  He has no real job, he wakes up when he wants, and he pursues various intellectual pursuits to stimulate his mind.  He is a minimalist with very few expensive possessions and though he is a veritable millionaire, he drives the cheapest import car he could afford.  For entertainment he tries different coffee stores and hangs out with some of his other retired friends during the day.  In the evening he hangs out with us usually for cigars or a cheap dinner at one of our favorite dives.  He returns home where he teaches himself languages, reads books, watches documentaries, has cocktails and goes to bed around 4AM.

"Bill" is a pilot.  He just purchased a very nice home and the mortgage on that home is the only debt he has.  He has been living frugally for the past 10 years, building up a massive downpayment that he could afford a 15 year mortgage and a very low interest rate.  He works out with me religiously.  He is also the musician in our group and can ballroom dance.  He's been working on his music, his body building, and his career.  When he's in town he joins us for dinner at that same dive restaurant or (time permitting) is up for flying down south to enjoy warmer weather.

"Fred" is a computer networker and a race car driver.  His house is pretty much paid off because he busts his ass off working about 60 hours a week.  If you want to find him you can find him at work, at the gym, in his basement (tinkering with computers) or on the race track.  You will not find him at a club or a loud bar, because he is a beer connoisseur.  You will find him at the quiet local brewpub with a bunch of other 40 somethings.

I could go on, but if I were to succinctly summarize where to "find the good men" it would be:

1.  At home
2.  At a coffee shop/low end restaurant
3.  At work
4.  Out doing their hobbies

In short, NOT at the bar or the night club.

But here is where the women face a high, if not, impossible hurdle.  You can't meet these men even if you wanted to.  You can't go to random houses, knocking on guys doors to see if any "good guys" are home.  You can't go to a restaurant and randomly approach men to see if they are good guys.  You certainly can't go to various corporate offices to see if any good guys are at work.  And unless you are in the passenger seat of Fred's race car or Bill's airplane, you're not going to find good guys attempting to join their hobbies.  In other words, they've gone ghost. They're gone.  They're not only off the market, you can't even find them to convince them to consider going back on the market. 

This leaves marriage-seeking women with the "nightclub" or "online dating" as markets for finding men.  Unfortunately, these aren't "good guys."  Not that they a morally bad men, they're just not marriage minded men.  They're players.  And so when a guy scores a number and lines up a date with a girl he met at a bar, 9 out of 10 times he has no romantic interest in her, only sexual.  This makes things doubly bad for women because it is misleading or (to borrow from economic parlance) "sends the wrong pricing signals."  With all these players asking for their numbers, women misinterpret this attention as romantic attention, not sexual.  Thus, they are constantly thinking "Mr. Perfect" is just around the corner, when it is just another player.  20 years of bar-hopping and night-clubbing go by with no yield of "good men" and thus, with the biological clock screaming, they ask "when have all the good men gone?"

The answer, ladies, is "home."

Enjoy the decline!


Rmaxd said...

Or these guys could ex-pat if they wanted a relationship

Or even better a surrogacy

Unknown said...

Your description describes me. I also know spinsters and pre-spinsters, all on medication, all hostile, all with cats, all with "careers," and with no understanding of men, who can't figure out "when the good guys are." My stock answer is to tell them, "They're right where you left them, back in your 20s."

cdw said...

How true. My group of guys are in our 50's. At least one divorce under our belts. One runs a huge realestate company, makes 6 figures while sleeping. Another, medical field, no debt, takes 2 months off every year to travel by road all over north america. One more guy, banking, big banking, he farts 1000 dollar bills. The common theme, none of us are dating. The Captain already gave the answer, at our ages , the women are all broken down physically, mentally, monetarily, and their children are all dorks. The late 30 or early 40's women are barely interesting, but they are desperate, and the pricing mechanism is already built in. The Captain is never wrong on these things. And the ladies will find me out on the roadway somewhere between Calgary and Oatman!

Amateur Strategist said...

I share Mike's interest in languages. I even tried learning two languages at once, but time just did not permit. However, learning two languages at once is more akin to the "forbidden art"* of language learning or polyglot clubs.

Has Mike ever told you his techniques? I'm just curious if he found "the way" to learn two languages at once. He's quite a talented guy.

*"forbidden" in this case meaning that it is not illegal, but highly not recommended and sealed away so no mere mortal can try it. Then some guy will come in in the 5th movie sequel who knows it and the protagonist has to beat him... I'm getting ahead of myself.

Anonymous said...

Another great post, CC; a little off topic, but I thought this was worth your attention:

(the first "slide" in the show; there's no way to link directly; it links to ).

D'Oh, HBS.

'Reality' Doug said...

For your marriage-minded friend:

"Cotto: If you could give men a single bit of advice for the life well lived, what would it be?

"Roosh: Get out of America. Make your money, start some type of internet business that frees your mobility, and hop an airplane to a destination where English is not the primary language. At least when it comes to women and comfort, the grass is indeed greener. I’ve lived almost four years outside of America, and I have no desire to go back."


I also think he needs to re-evaluate what an ltr with a woman is. It is not 'friendship', despite the irradiation of men's clubs. Go under 25 if you must marry, and practice husbandry like a husband ensuring his marital success must.

You got some quality friends, Captain. That screams success. *jealousy* And good friends are the difference in an apocalypse.

Anonymous said...

I am enjoying the career I have before me, after a year or two in training left to me. I will be finished with my debt a year or so after that with a significant salary along with that. After the debt, i will be enjoying life, salting what I can away either physically or elsewhere.

When I was younger, women paid no attention to me, thinking me a loser. Now that I am closer to my goal, the women my age (early 40's,) are not worth my time. To top it off, they fit the bill as that 30-40 something woman that disturbed you eating some years ago to a T. They see me more and more as a someTHING (retirement fund/walking ATM,) than someONE to share life with. I have seen golddiggers a mile away.

I may or may not attract the attention of 20-somethings, but man, they are dumb as bricks. I have seen some disgusting hygiene habits that they have, and it is quite scary. The STD rate in the country is getting too high for reasonable dating.

I have already started looking around the world for a mate/relationship in the 20-something decades. Found a few lovelies that do physical, social and intellectual circles around their peers here. But that will be a bit in the future, after I have my career off the ground.

Anonymous said...

Ironically, the good woman are also:

1. At home
2. At a coffee shop/low end restaurant
3. At work
4. Out doing their hobbies

Not a lot of stories about happily married grandpa meeting grandma at a nightclub. "Thar she was, junior! Up on the table dancing to Mustang Sally"....

Lucas Darr said...

The picture you reveal is actually worse than presented.

From a married man perspective, this is how it's used to work. Consider two buds. Bob and Steve:

From the secular standpoint
Bob gets married to Susan. Susan has a hot, nice friend named Gina who wants to get married. Susan talks to Bob, and Bob introduces his friend Steve to Gina. Sparks fly! Marriage! Babies!

From the religious standpoint
Bob gets married to Susan. Susan's prayer group has a nice, Christian girl named Gina. Gina is young, innocent, feminine and a proper Christian girl. After church, Bob and Susan invite Gina and Steve to Sunday brunch. Sparks fly! Marriage! Babies!

What now happens
Bob likes Susan but declines to marry her because all of her friends either on their second marriage or shrills with a princess complex, especially the ones at church. Furthermore Susan comes from a broken family. While Bob gives Susan credit for staying off the stripper pole with the Daddy Issues(TM), Bob decides Susan isn't marriageable material.

Bob never introduces Steve to Susan's friends. Young Gina at the prayer group is bewildered that she's a nice girl with good looks but she will never be introduced to Steve. It's not that Steve stays at home, it's that social forces both subversive and overt ripped away the network both inside and outside of the peer group/church/other social group that would bring two goodly people together to find happiness in the middle of the night.

Meanwhile, Steve doesn't give a shit. He's also friends with Derick and John, both married men whose wives won't even fuck their husbands.

Steve loves his house. He also loves the fact nobody can take it from him.

MarkyMark said...


This post describes me too. I do my hobbies, hang out at home, or work. I can't be BOTHERED with finding a woman-ick! I have better things to do with my time...


Anonymous said...

If this trend of stable and successful men walking off the plantation is widespread, it serves as good a sign as any, that the pendulum is now swinging at high speed in the opposite direction.

A man's sex drive is a force to be reckoned with - it practically built the world. If the status quo is so bad that men are simply walking away from the modern dating world, you know it must be bad.

I count myself as near-ghost - I still chase pussy, but it's only for shits and giggles - there's no way I'd commit to a modern woman ever again - it is a fool's errand. Plain and simple.

Phil Galt said...

Answer me this: Is it possible these are all Good Men (Interesting, financially stable, and enjoying life) BECAUSE there are no women in their lives? And that having a modern western woman in their lives would have prevented them from achieving greatness?

Karl said...

A sad commentary. The best thing for this country is to have children raised by the men like Comrade Captain's friends - (and the Captain himself).


Anonymous said...

good stuff, slow and steady wins the race. i remember being 26 and having a serious pity party about being single and made the decision to lower my standards. one awful relationship later i learned the value of patience and was able to find about as real a woman as you can. if you guys are having trouble with city girls and their brainwashed feminism, try country gals. in my experience they like their men to be men and they like to be the "traditional" women; proud of their home, abilities in the kitchen and they tend to be happy when their man is happy. just a thought....

Anonymous said...

"Answer me this: Is it possible these are all Good Men (Interesting, financially stable, and enjoying life) BECAUSE there are no women in their lives? And that having a modern western woman in their lives would have prevented them from achieving greatness?"

Yes, very possible. Modern women hinder, not help. They are a hindermate rather than a helpmate.
Men don't need women to survive and they should only be taken on when they can help them.

Carnivore said...

Captain, you really hit a home run with this one.

Anonymous said...

"Ironically, the good woman are also:

1. At home
2. At a coffee shop/low end restaurant
3. At work
4. Out doing their hobbies"

And since they are jaded too they are REALLY hard to find!

Somehow they need to get together.

Matt said...

The problem can be summed up like this: men are being asked to pay more and more for a product that is worth less and less.

In what economic world does that make any sense?

Keep in mind - we're being asked to pay more and more in an economy where that is becoming impossible.

Women overplayed their hand.

Unknown said...

"There are those who waste my time, I despise them. There are those who share my time, I am amused by them. There are those who enhance my time, I cherish them."

I don't know who said the above, but my experience has been modern women hinder men (and of course don't know it, or else blame the problem on men) but this is why men no longer cherish it says you're supposed to do in the wedding vows.

heresolong said...

You've described me with one exception. I'm not dating anyone because I have no interest in the 20-somethings for marriage and that's where I would like to be. I don't want to waste my time dating women who aren't prospective wives, so I date no one. I've been on the dating websites and not really been that impressed although I've not completely dismissed it as you have. I don't hang out in bars and nightclubs because I don't enjoy it as well as the obvious reason that the women I'm interested in aren't there. To me, the reason for the dating website is the lack of other alternatives. I'm not religious, I teach at a small high school so am probably not going to meet anyone at work, I don't have hobbies that involve getting together with groups of strangers, and my friends mostly don't have single friends due to our ages. There isn't anywhere else to meet women and I don't have the makeup or inclination to become a pickup artist.

Anonymous said...

So, the Men of the Mind stay home and improve themselves while the world decays away.

I like it.

"I am John Galt."

Anonymous said...

Yet when you describe the equal but opposite case of women who have successful careers and choose to live alone after tiring of the put them on the Schadenfreude list.

Captain Capitalism said...

But the dynamic is different. My male friends purposely stopped looking.

Women in their 30/40's decided it was time to "settle down" and start looking.

ie-it was a conscious choice by my friends, and it was a forced choice on the women.

Red Pill Woman said...

Interesting post. So the good men are at home, working, etc...Fortunately for me, the BEST man is in my bed...*cornycornycorny*

Old Glory said...

Right on, guys. These comments are definitely reinforcing for my behavior and goals in life. I'm in my late 20s and just finished a Masters while working full-time in IT. Looking to change jobs soon, even change cities since I currently live in DC and from here on out just seek adventure in life.

I don't even go to bars/clubs anymore unless friends ask me to come have some drinks. I would much rather develop new skill sets at home, work on my foreign language skills to help me when I travel a few times a year. It's *occasionally* nice to have some company, but I can keep myself occupied enough to not even be bothered by the lack of a woman in my life. It's probably been a year since I actually went on a "date."

Anyway, Viva MGTOW!

Anonymous said...

Yes. Yes. Yes.

Me: Mid-30's, pulling down a nice income in a creatively stimulating career. No debt. Rent an apartment, but that's only because I've been moving around the country a lot. Over six feet tall, not athletic or a model but I work out and am considered handsome. Well-read, educated, good sense of humor, polite but not a pushover. Get along well with men and women I work with.

Haven't dated for years, have no interest in pursuing women. If they want me they can find me and jump through my hoops.

Anonymous said...

I joke around with other MRA's that American gender-feminists are going to continue perverting American law enforcement in order to Empower themselves, until hetero-relationships become a legal liability for men.

Anonymous said...

I joke around with other MRA's that American gender-feminists are going to continue perverting American law enforcement in order to Empower themselves, until hetero-relationships become a legal liability for men.

Krauser said...

Sounds like a great group of friends. I've got a similar thing going on, working 3 months and then 9 months off due to being mid-career professional and very low cost base.

I do spend time dating younger women but I don't take any of them seriously. I just got my skills up to a level where finding them isn't such a chore.

LostEveryWeekend said...

I feel as though I will find myself in this situation in the next 15 years, although it will probably get worse with each passing generation. I agree with the expat suggestion...or doing like other guys and watching every single college football game every Saturday (think Mark Minter suggested this). That always makes me feel better.

Andrew said...

I have to ask, is there some method that works for getting over burnout? I'm a bit younger than most of you guys (21) but went through a couple of the nice guy cliches and pretty much decided, screw it, not worth the trouble.

Anonymous said...

There is a partial solution, hobby meetup groups! (like Also I know people who've gotten married and dated normally from online dating, in their 30s/40s. There are also 'older people social groups' that exist for this kind of purpose.

Anonymous said...

Captain, do you want to start a matchmaking service?

We single women who understand the red pill world are trying to stay hopeful in this low-velocity market you recognize. We could use some help.

a tall dog said...

Have you considered that men have a career-alarm-clock?

When I was in my 20's it was more about exploring life. I tried multiple jobs in different career fields looking for one I liked (from musician to retail to engineer). I dated different women looking for Miss Right (and I would have been happy to marry in my 20's if I had found her).

But, when I hit 30 a bell went off in my head, and I started taking a hard look at my career. By this time I had committed to an industry (IT). Now I was thinking about my future career: how would I get off the bottom rung; what would be my career path; would I go into management or focus on the technical side; would I start my own business one day (and what would I need to do to prepare myself)?

Suddenly, my career was my top priority. Working extra hours became more important than finding Miss Right. Learning new skills that could help me in my career became more important than socializing. I quickly became focused on one thing: my career. It wasn't until I was well into my 40's that I came out of this single-minded career focus (it would be fair to call this my go-getter/workaholic period).

Consider how this compares to the life track of the typical career minded woman. In her 20's she is focused on establishing her career and climbing the career ladder. When she turns 30 her her biological alarm clock goes off. So, in her 30's she starts to focus on marriage and family.

When men are most open to meeting Miss Right (the 20's), she's focused on career and avoiding marriage. When she's focused on marriage (the 30's) men are focused on their career.

Grand_Designs said...

I’m pretty much in the same boat…mid 40s has good career; not cashed out of the rat race yet, but working on it. Blew out an LTR, (beta back-slid lost frame/attraction) brought me to the red pill, tossed psy books out, went through the unplugging stages (what 5…dunno) seeing my target age ½ + 7 and then some. Am I am seeing the desirable 30 something women with MMV (marriage market value), not so much. I’m seeing the same carbon copy: careerist, pursuing masters, SSRI taking, carrousel riding Alpha widows through the rowing 20s, inability to bond, selfish (me…me…me) , 465 bullet proof check lists…I’m not burned out yet, my new plate is 25 so, I’m evaluating what percent this one can enhance my life, not take away..

Anonymous said...

So you guys are basically monks?