Thursday, June 11, 2015

Why MGTOW Is Unsalvageable

It is now a nearly daily event where I will get a comment on my YouTube channel from some naive late teen or early 20 something girl who parrots the simpleton and naive argument she was programmed to parrot:

"Feminism is just the equal treatment of men and women!"

Like all of you, I find it funny, but disheartening because in throwing her lot in with "feminists" or "feminism" she is associating herself with a movement that entails:

Menstrual knitting
Menstrual painter
Spitting on priests and Catholic men
False rape accusations

and a cornucopia of other outright insanity, hate, and genuine bigotry against men.

However, such a young girl can hardly be blamed.  Not only is she young and inexperienced, she's naive.  Additionally, feminism is sold to her as "simply" the equal treatment of men and women (while its darker hate-filled side is very often hidden).  So when presented with this proposition, that men and women should be treated equally, then who (male or female) would reject feminism?

The problem, however, is while young women may be predisposed to look at the self-proclaimed moral virtues of feminism, because of the internet young men see the uglier and truer side of feminism.  They see the slut walks.  They see the fact acceptance.  They see their dad's getting divorced.  They see their buddy's worrying about getting sperm-jacked or being falsely accused of rape.  And so when a young woman proudly (though cluelessly) claims she's a "feminist" you might as well proudly be telling a Jew your a Nazi.

And that same thing, I'm afraid, is happening to the term "MGTOW."

MGTOW in all of its original intent was as noble and just as feminism.  It was simply men choosing to leave the rat race of careerism, marriage, dating, etc. behind, and go live their one life on this planet as they saw fit.  They abandoned tradition, choosing to refuse the offer society currently left them on the table as a cost benefit analysis more often than not proved the old social contract just wasn't worth it anymore.

However, like all good ideas, especially ones that rebuke convention, it attracted not practitioners or genuinely independent men, but genuine social rejects and outcasts.  And soon within a couple of years a concept of individualism, freedom, and independent thought was turned into a religious cult that served more as a haven for cultists to commiserate with one another and hate on women.

This presented genuine MGTOW's a conundrum I'm sure many legitimate and original feminists faced;

Do you keep claiming to be a MGTOW/feminist when radicals, bigots, and losers take over movement and thus redefine the term?

Originally, I thought the percentage of cultists in the MGTOW community was a minority.  Just a bunch of loud nerds or unemployed losers who had all day to play a keyboard jockey, pontificating about the "religion" of MGTOW as if they were doctoral seminarians and academics.  But when I did a video to differentiate us real MGTOW's from the 17 year old who couldn't find a date to prom, I realized soon they were both too loud and too high a percentage of the community.  MGTOW, no matter what its validity and benefits as an idea, was effectively hijacked by the cultists and their behavior would make it a four letter word.

Alas, I have come to the same conclusion the originator of the term MGTOW (Rob Fedders) came to.  The term MGTOW is not salvageable.  MGTOW today is about as manly as feminism is feminine.  It no longer represents strong, independent men who under their own intellectual volition decide to go out and strike out on their own way.  It is a bunch of self-proclaim internet professors who can only study and speculate about what real life MGTOW's are doing in the real world.

Are their real world MGTOW's out there, real men, genuinely going their own way?  Yes, of course.  But they're too busy actually being MGTOW to write about it, let alone care if they're labelled "MGTOW."

Ergo, it's up to every man out there which they'd rather be.

A practitioner with no label:

Or a theoretician "Level 53F" MGTOW:

The choice is up to you.


James Wolfe said...

The same thing happened to men in Japan. Once they identified as a group they became ostracized by society as losers and freaks. Men who go there own way here are called all kinds of derogatory things and I would bet over half of the people who claim to be MGTOW who are the ones posting all these crazy things aren't even men. Or if they are they're really SJWs trying to give real men a bad name. Rush Limbaugh paid someone to research and find out where the most vocal critics were coming from. They found out about 90% of the registered account names came from a handful of people. It only appeared like there was this vast number of people hating him. It was really just 2 or 3 really dedicate people trolling him. I suspect we have a lot of that going on here.

1432fpchero said...

true, and LMAO funny

Cynical Basterd said...

Sadly I'm coming to this realization as well.

MGTOW was a useful term when it was just those of us who didn't give a damn what others thought to let others who understood the term know what we were doing and befuddle those who didn't understand the acronym. Now it's been taken over by keyboard warriors and those who have proudly gone womanfree and wear it like a badge of honor.

For those of us who just want to do our own thing, just do what you want. I would suggest abandoning the term MGTOW and just use something like "own way" if you have to tell someone what you're doing. Don't use it like a badge and don't try and say someone else isn't doing it right because there is no one way. For me it's computer programming, coasters, and caving. For you it might be other things. You don't even have to go womanfree, I'm always on the lookout for the Loch Ness NAWALT (I've seen the blurry photographs, they do exist).

Thanks for the wise words Cappy. Enjoy going your own way out west.

leeholsen said...

Yes ! and again I say YES !

I know several middle age men that play video games, keep their facebook up to date and dress more like a high school dropout rather than someone with a college degree; which they all have.

There's not an independent thinker, one capable of finding and pursuing their own interests and none maintain their stance on something until shown in black and white that they are wrong; they crumble with any pressure.

I refuse to join them and example 1 is not having text on my smartphone. I maintain that any person can call and tell me what they want to faster than they can text it and I refuse to waste my time texting on that belief and if I miss out on something because I'm the guy that doesn't have texting; so be it.

Anonymous said...

"They see the slut walks. They see the fact acceptance."

Feminism's not really big on "fact acceptance", Aaron.

Dave said...

Meh. Part of the ethos of MGTOW is not caring what anyone else thinks of MGTOW.

Mark Neil said...

Yeah. I gave up the label a while ago. Working on the application as I write

grey enlightenment said...

lol you keep beating-up on MGTOW..mgtow you share a lot of ideological similarities, it's just that MGTOW people have different, more introverted lifestyles, so what.

GWAS said...

I totally agree with you. This shit has become the male version of feminism. Utterly retarded.

Anonymous said...


Aggregate Demand Bullshit !

Spending is supposed to make a "healthy" economy ?
Low spending makes an economy "sick" ?

This doesn't make sense. Capitalism requires growth.
How will you grow your economy if you need to immediately spend away the wealth that you have just created ?
How will you increase your prosperity if you cannot hold on to it ?

I'm starting to think that GDP is bullshit. Just because there is money changing hands doesn't mean that the economy is adding more prosperity. In fact, GDP might even indicate that the economy is destroying prosperity and getting further in debt.

Low spending is not sick, what is sick is low savings and worse consumer debt.
Our economy is sick because it no longer allows people to save money.

Suppose colonial times settlers were structured like our current economy. A farmer chops wood for winter. He logically wants to chop more wood than he thinks he will need in the winter, he wants wood savings. He wants to make it through the winter without freezing to death.

How is it "sick" that he refuses to waste his saved wood in the first few months of winter ? How is it "unhealthy" that he tries to economize his wood during winter ?

If this farmer would be like today's average US citizen, he would burn all his wood during the first month of winter and then borrow wood from other farmers to make it through the rest of winter. That would be completely silly.

I fail to see how that would be healthy.

Our economy is sick not because there is low demand. Our economy is sick because production is the hostage of demand.

The farmer in the colonial times chopped as much wood as he could even if nobody demanded wood from him. He did not wait for demand before he started chopping wood.

This whole need for demand is the problem. We need to bring back production. We need a production and savings economy, not a consumption and credit economy.

You need to move away from petty subjects like MGTOW and start writing articles on how to bring back production and savings in America.

Anonymous said...

Oh look, this article again.

A.B. Prosper said...

What Dave said. MGTOW isn't something you are, its something you do.

And yeah a few guys are making money off it, so what? Man's gotta eat.

Anonymous said...

1. Movement with legitimate grievance starts, gains steam
2. Extremists join
3. Extremists and opponents of movement redefine movement as belonging to extremists, hijack from original cause
4. Original members of cause leave, refuse to identify with bastardized version of cause they created
5. Cause becomes completely controlled by extremists, is marginalized, and becomes a fringe movement or does out

This is exactly what happened to feminism and the Tea Party, and it will also, unfortunately, happen to MGTOW. The VirginTOWs are more more focused on hating women and men who associate with women than on being their own men. They aren't just misogynist; they're outright anti-woman.

I agree with the principles of MGTOW, but as a happily married man who believes that there are numerous good women out there, I cannot and will not identify with the term MGTOW at this time due to its unfortunate woman-hating image.

Perhaps the term can be reclaimed in the future.

Anonymous said...

one possible way of leaving the losers out is to associate with a movement like viking supremacy

Anonymous said...

ahaha stay mad Nature Boy.

Glen Filthie said...

Oh I dunno Cap. If that's the way of it, and dogs define the team... the whole 'Manosphere' is a write-off too.

My two cents is that PUA and MGTOW are both best considered as temporary and excusable coping mechanisms for men to use that have been deeply hurt by feral women - and MGTOW is the far more honourable of the two. I can respect a guy like you puddle jumping in the great outdoors as you put your head together after a nasty relationship. I can forgive you for pumping and dumping everything that moves after a bad breakup too.

But as long term life strategies? Nah - a real man couldn't do it! I feel kinda sorry for the flakes and losers copping out with these movements the same way I feel bad for the hairy chested militant feminist lesbians and other marginal flakes and flimps. A lot of marriages work and work well too. What you youngsters need to remember is that YOU define YOUR marriage - not some liberal cunned stunt at Salon or The New York Slimes. Approach your potential mate the same way your grandfather did in the 1940's and 50's - with a critical eye, a long chaste courtship, and a deep respect for good women! That will weed out the dogs and liberals and save you a pile of heartache in divorce court.

Anonymous said...

You have a point. Tho i still do hang onto the label simply out of convenience because hey... it IS an apt description of what i am doing (i am a man who went his own way, not society's prescribed route).

But i won't disagree with you that a lot of men jumped into it to use it as a shield to stop from any kind of self or personal growth. Join the movement, start slamming the keyboard and blaming everything else except yourself for all your ills. Sounds eerily reminiscent of feminism to be sure.

I guess the principled difference is that MGTOW is a label that actually reflects the actions of the movement - every man in it is going their own way - even the ones we think are going the WRONG way.. it's still their way. I tried explaining to JudgyBitch that MGTOW are a lot like Athiests, it's like trying to herd cats.. you just can't do it because so many do their own thing. The problem came when you had interlopers (lets use the Atheism+ analogy) come in, hijack the philosiphy of every man do what he desires to do into "Women are hypergamous bitches, don't trust them, walk away, end marriage, let the women fall by the wayside,e tc..."

We often used the expression 'Enjoy the Decline' to reflect what we feel is societies decline, but these folks who turned MGTOW into a religious text to be followed like the bible.. they carry that phrase in their hearts and want to see that decline happen just as much as Evangelicals want to see the world burn because it harkens the end times.

So i can sit here saying Cappy, i am a MGTOW.. but i'm that because i came to that conclusion on my own - i didn't need to be convinced of it - and i won't allow someone elses version to be enforced or foisted upon me like a manifesto.

If the label gets too toxic, i will step away from it but continue to live it, no sweat off my back.

JimboSlice said...

If you need a name for it or a club of fellow travelers, you don't get it.

The Question said...

"Are their real world MGTOW's out there, real men, genuinely going their own way? Yes, of course. But they're too busy actually being MGTOW to write about it, let alone care if they're labelled "MGTOW."

Reminds me of an apocryphal story of what Karl Marx's wife once said to him:

"Karl, stop writing about capital and start making some of it."

Anonymous said...

The manosphere in general is pretty bad for this at the moment. Seems like everyone is either shouting about how alpha they are, how all women are evil or trying to sell "surefire ways to get you laid".

minuteman said...

It's always existed, but in the past these men became priests or monks.

nate w said...

No 2 people have the same definition of mgtow, and that's fine. Personally I prefer acronyms that can be pronounced anyway. Thinking dwodgafs. Divorced men who dont gave a crap. I've pried enough leeches off my skin for one lifetime. Maybe leechproof would be a good name.

One Fat Oz Guy said...

I mostly agree with you, however money, unlike stores of wood, lose value over time. Money has value in the economy as long as it keeps moving. If you won a million dollars and took it out as cash and buried it in the ground it would create a hole in the economy.
The economy relies on you spending it, investing it or banking it (where banks will lend against it).
Purposely holding onto it as cash creates problems for the system. Fortunately for the system, there won't be too many people taking a million dollars and stashing it somewhere any time soon.

Anonymous said...

MGTOWs are losers and deserve to be shamed! Good job cappy, we need more of this!

Anonymous said...

I once considered myself MGTOW. I'd "seen it all" in our declining society and decided the offerings weren't what I wanted. The "life in a box" society, and sadly, even the church often pushes upon a person to be considered "acceptable" really chafed at me (some in the church completely forget how early believers went against the grain, but I digress).

MGTOW at first seemed a place to meet some guys who had seen the same things and it was nice seeing I was far from alone in my observations. Along the way, I conversed with a few guys who indeed were the kind of accomplished, self-improving, critically thinking men I strive to be.

Unfortunately, now it often seems to be about who can shout the loudest along with a dictatorial modus operandi where all must be in agreement or be cast out. I'm one who refused to do it "their way". Many other men I know have done the same. You might say many of us have gone beyond MGTOW. Some still consider themselves MGTOW to an extent, but all have rejected the dogmatic attitudes prevalent among many MGTOW today, and gained a lot of peace in the process. Far preferable to a recurring loop of anger and hatred in a self-perpetuating echo chamber.

Carl said...

When a 17 year old boy indoctrinated into MGTOW ideology can pursue a graduate level degree in MGTOW studies and demand university administrative/student tribunals, not subject to prudent legal precedent, to expel girls from university because they won't leave boys alone-yea, unsalvageable.

'Reality' Doug said...

I agree with Dave. Brilliantly pithy comment.

Why vilify men who find it cost effective to be unemployed, play video games, and hate women? Oh yah, they are ruining everything, like the term MGTOW. lol It is cost effective to vilify men who are unemployed, play video games, and hate women, since real men with money hate on soft targets from their keyboards and follow blogs. Losers in the decline are such losers. Here's my advice: (1) Be a winner, (2) Be a winner, and (3) Don't be a loser.

Fidelbogen said...

Rob Fedders originated the term MGTOW?

I have never heard that theory before.

Fidelbogen said...

But seriously, MGTOW is not a club or group. It is an underlying social reality, an impersonal force of history as I have notoriously said. It's like a weather phenomenon -- remove the conditions that spawned in, and it will go away. The name you give to it is completely fucking immaterial.

Anonymous said...

Sandman here......

Unknown said...

Considering how much they pretty much elevate their assumptions into dogmatic truths with little to no real-world verification or context, with overthought as their only major source of verification, I have to agree with your sentiment.

MGTOW is a cult and the first thing it did to become that way was to refer to everyone in the plural as opposed to the singular.

Unknown said...

Considering how much they pretty much elevate their assumptions into dogmatic truths with little to no real-world verification or context, with overthought as their only major source of verification, I have to agree with your sentiment.

MGTOW is a fucking cult and the first thing it did to become that way was to refer to everyone in the plural as opposed to the singular.

The Question said...

I have to add one more comment to all of this.

The fakes MGTOWs are those who come to the fork in the road (the MGTOW symbol) but then stop and declare that they're going to go their own way, but never actually "get on with it."

Why? Because they really don't want to go their "own" way. They want everyone to go as a group to get validation and affirmation for their life. So there you see them, perpetually yelling at real MGTOWs to stop as they actually proceed to go their own way, insisting that they wait so that everyone can go the same way together.

Like Rocco said in Boondock Saints 2, there's two types of people, talkers and doers.

"So which one are you? Do you just talk about it? Or do you stand up and do something about it? Because believe you me, all the rest of it is just coffee house BS."

Anonymous said...

Capitalist like your self are just mad that MGTOW are no longer playing the plantation game that fuel capitalism. Women will have to buy they junk like shoes, clothes, and the big house. More and more men are joining MGTOW world-wide. Welcome to the new world order. I am MGTOW

Gus said...

Mr/Mz Captain, remember to be mindful of the fact that all of the manospfere blogs have been infiltrated by feminists meatpuppets and sockpuppets to derail the movement.

Right now MGTOW is in a raw state. Lots of different opinions. As this movement matures , the MGTOW umbrella will include all extremes of man, then remove the unwanted elements.

Anonymous said...

I might take MGTOW seriously if I could find a MGTOW who was actually a man. Most seem to have effeminate, high-pitched, nerdy vocal patterns.

I guess all the real men are out in the real world doing too many real things to bother with the Internet. The Internet is mainly a fantasy world for losers.

Anonymous said...

You are in the internet. ^^

Anonymous said...

I applaud the MGTOW movement in principle, just as I applauded feminism in it's purest form (ie: equal rights for both genders). Both movements became infected with bitter extremists. I saw the same thing happen in other movements - the Humane Societies and animal rescues of the world are being taken over by vegans and animal rights activists who now have ridiculous requirements for adoption. This increased demand for private breeders, who don't require a home inspection when you adopt a dog, which was the opposite of what the animal rights people wanted; they became ineffectual assholes about it instead of being smart and moderate and effecting a positive change. Extremists fuck up everything.

I think it's cool that the original MGTOWs have found fulfillment without having to partake in a social institution that is so obviously failing (with a 50%+ divorce rate, most marriages are pretty fucked). I applaud people from both genders who refuse to do what society demands. I am a woman who does not want children, and my partner feels the same way. We are viewed with suspicion by couples with young kids and I am constantly being told I will regret it. My common law husband and I are happy as we are - we enjoy our intellectual and artistic pursuits and our autonomy. Our identity will not be consumed by offspring, and we both hope to leave behind our memes (ideas) rather than our genes. For the original MGTOWs who are more about independence than the vitriolic, online woman hating, I applaud you.

Mgtow Songs said...

I've never wanted to identify under a particular label as it sets up a target on your back to get shot at and ridiculed or chased out, just like the Atheism label causes christians to think atheists are satanists or evil doers. However MGTOW is a useful search term keyword, as is MRM/MRA.

If not only for its use as a search keyword to look up interesting topics and discussions... nothing more? i.e. it is a catch 22 here. Without the label it is hard to find topics discussing male topics regarding getting shafted by disingenuous women, and how to deal with issues such as relationships, not getting married, etc.

The MGTOW keyword has been proven extremely useful for finding topics, although just like the atheism label one pays a price each time the label is used. MGTOWs are discriminated agains, just like atheists or any other labeled person is, such as a Vegan who is considered a weakling without muscle. Sam Harris calls this taking a hit for using a label and putting a target on your back. Yet he still uses the label "atheism" as a search lookup term on his blog.

Anonymous said...

To me, it's kind of stupid to create this class separation of men that all have the same common frustration.....women.

For the guys that just opt out of women because you want to keep your freedom, your money...that's all fine and well, but don't be a dick to those that are "dating challenged" because women have gotten so picky nowadays.

And vice versa.

Whether you are willingly opting out or not, you are both electing to go your own have no choice...because women are women and are not going to change.

As far as who created MGTOW, I think it's more important to cite the roots of the men's rights movement. I think you'll see it goes much farther back than even the creation of MGTOW.

Pat Riarchy said...

What's the problem with being a confirmed bachelor?

MalcolmN said...

The thing is that MGTOW that I see, focuses mostly on why marriage is unsafe for men, and how the system is skewed against them. There are some who go to evolutionary biology, but I believe they were inspired to that by feminism, and the all men shit.

However, in the end, whether women, and others choose to demonize it or not, it will gain a following, not of active and committed people, because that is exactly what it is not. Dr Helen Smith said it best, men are not getting married, because it doesn't make sense anymore. I say this as a man who has been happily married for 23 years, but will also say, I think if I were to be looking today, having come through school in the last 5 or so years, I would not be interested. Too many warning flags thrown with all men, and knowing no matter how hard you try the woman in your life also lives in today's society. Divorce is seen to cost men so well...

Anonymous said...

Good for you, you are on point

Unknown said...

Oh please Captain, you left out the right wing elite, Tradcons, and social Darwinist types. There are other reasons I'm leaving MGTOW, but partly because they can't seem to be politically neutral. Also, the way you categorize certain men is part of why we're MGTOW: shaming. One of the commenters here categorized MGTOW men as being 'effeminate.' Really? Top Dollar Gansta, and Stand Up Men?

"To me, it's kind of stupid to create this class separation of men that all have the same common frustration.....women."

Exactly, America is very classist, but vehemently denies it: one's worth goes part in parcel with their net worth. And women don't shame us nearly as much as we shame each other.

Unknown said...

What in God's name makes you think either feminism or MGTOW-ism are good? They are mirror images of one another. Each hates the opposite sex, and does so for childish, selfish, and STUPID reasons. Both deserve to die a fast and painful death.

Unknown said...

I think you are too harsh on MGTOW... I am 24 years old, very masculine, an "old-fashioned man" as they say it... I started my own business when I was 18.

The point is that boys are oppressed by their single mothers and the educational system from the time they are born - to the time they become adults...

In other words Feminism castrates men.

We-as MGTOW- try to preserve/regain masculinity. We tell men it is not wrong to be men!

We are men, we are aggressive, we like to fight to sort our problems, we understand HONOR, we understand RESPECT!

Women do not understand the concept of respect nowadays... and are ready to pull the "I'M A WOMAN" card whenever there are consequences!

We are tired of the double standards.

MGTOW is not only about the political situation.
It is not only about marriage, alimony, half shit stolen, cheating scum, dominating women, false rape accusation.

It is also about WOMEN... women are ENSLAVED by feminism to work for 50 hours a week, for the next 50 years, most DOOMED to be alone with their cats.

We want traditionalism, when MEN are dominating and we are READY to take the responsibility if we see appreciation, love and respect from women and the government.

Feminism is not about equality, it is about superiority of women...

And this is unnatural!

WE ARE MEN, we are the superior physically, mentally, intellectually.

Women are not ready to step up to the DRAFT and defend the nation EQUALLY as men.

If a war starts SOON, the new generation of feminine men WILL NOT come to rescue women - we are EQUAL, right? Save yourself!!!

I am in Europe... THAT IS THE REASON German and Swedish men are leaving their women be RAPED by "refugees"... they were abused, shunned and shamed throughout their whole entire life since they were boys all the way to manhood!


MGTOW is a wake up call!

And believe, I am a man... I am not nerdy bitch.

How absurd is it for you to think that NERDS and BITCHES and FEMININE guys will want MGTOW?!
They are the ones who want FEMINISM!!!
Nerds and BITCHEZ are HAPPY to live in the "feminist world", where no one expects ANYTHING from them as men...

It is sad to see that some exMGTOWs are bashing MGTOW... I know there are indeed weak men among us... but the majority are MEN - real old-fashioned men, who were abused and are tired!

I think that MGTOW does WAY MUCH MORE BETTER than worse for men... it gives an OPTION... if there is no MGTOW, believe me, a lot of men would see only Feminism and self-castration as option... YES!

MGTOW is for being SELF-RELIANT, MOTIVATED, STANDING UP to the regime, HAVING AN OPINION different the propaganda, BEING MANLY, STANDING UP for yourself as a man!!!

We men are attacked for being just MEN;
Like whites are attacked for slavery for being just WHITES... this is ABSURD!

We are rising, no matter you say!

And even if you are shaming us(ignoring all the good we do) we will make a change!

And if we do not succeed... all of you should be accept the European Caliphate and Islam ruling the world.

Unknown said...

Jim Gallagher:
The difference between MGTOW and Feminism:
- Feminism is government funded, centralized, works with propaganda and protests;
- Feminism is created by Jew Lesbians, funded by the Globalists, bankers;
- Feminism is integrated in our policies and government;
- MEN are oppressed(that is why we had NO saying when Merkel opened the border for the "refugees");
- Feminism makes it ok to laugh at men, even if a woman cuts a man's penis!
- Feminism is about SUPERIORITY of women!

- Not government funded - just individuals who found their way to MGTOW on their OWN(like me), not by propaganda! - very important point; I lived as a MGTOW for 2 years before I found it;
- MGTOW is not created by gays... it is just men who share the same experiences with women;
- MGTOW has no saying about the laws and government;
- MGTOW is about SUPERIORITY of MEN...

And it is quite natural for MEN to be superior to women... men created this civilization, BRO!

If it was up to women we would be still in the Stone Age, as women want their man to be always there serving her and the children(which is not so bad)... but if ALL MEN were ok to just kill an animal and bring it home, light some fire, and go to sleep - there would have been NO PROGRESS.

Women's role was only to give birth to children and raise them... NOTHING ELSE! - cave women did that :)

So do not tell me MGTOW and Feminism are the same - yes they are the same, because they gather people of ONE GENDER... but MGTOW has NO POWER!!!

And we are not attacking everything we see not fitting our views... we are GOING AWAY!!! AHAHAHAHAH

Are feminists GOING AWAY?! A?

Feminism is for equality, right?
Feminism is for accepting EVERYONE for the way they are - gays, lesbians, SJW, trannies...

Why is it hard for Feminism to accept men who want to go their own way, and in the meantime like to bash women, NOT HIT THEM or OPPRESS THEM, just JOKE about them and EXPOSE their wrong doings!

For you to say MGTOW and Feminism are the same, is like saying Nazis and Soviets are the same(while they are both dictatorships) - one is a REACTION and DEFENSE, the other is ACTION and OFFENSE!

I let you figure which is what :)
MGTOW is NEEDED in this day and age, because of the Crazy Feminism going on...
We just put MOST MEN's views on nowadays WOMEN!!!

If we are idle... Feminism will attack HARD... women are pushing for COMMUNISM!!!!

Communism and Feminism are MARXISM!!!!

Marxism is about "equality"!!!!

Feminists will soon push for men to pay 90% of their hard-earned money as TAXES!!! And that may vary well happen in 20-30 years, if there is NO REACTION as MGTOW!!!

Just like the POOR became partisans to take the money of the RICH and distribute it "evenly" among the masses!

Should we keep silent?!

We need to EXPOSE THEM, to STAND UP!

Unknown said...

Last thing to add...
I think ISLAM is the closest to the OPPOSITE/POLAR to Feminism, not MGTOW!

What do you think a Feminist woman is more afraid of:
1. A man who will CURSE HER with "BITCH!" and then GO AWAY?! <-MGTOW
2. A man who wants HAREM full of women for him, no education for women, and women as property of men? <- Fanatic Muslim

Which do you think is the opposite to Feminism again?

We are just GOING AWAY, taking our money and resources with us, and CURSING and SHUNNING women on the way...

We are not working THROUGH the government as Feminists DO... and Muslims want... with Sharia!

How about that?

Unknown said...

Awesome response.. Destroying like a savage. Good job bro

Anonymous said...

Thank you sir. That was very sane, rational and well thought out. It makes absolutely no sense to hate an entire gender for the actions and ideology of some. There's good and bad people in both seaaxes. Misandrist feminism and misogynist MGTOW are exactly what you called them out for being, extremists. They don't truly speak for the majority, but their voices do seem to be the loudest and turn everyone else off from the ideas these things are really supposed to be about. Any set of ideas can start out great but become corrupted in the hands of the wrong people. I agree that there are things that go on in society today where men are treated unfairly and have legitimate grievances that need to be addressed.
One can only hope that people can get past the nonsense of the extremists on both sides and work to solve problems and make life better for everyone.

Unknown said...

Hey what's up Jim?
Don't insult me like ya did on mgtow 101
Im just sayin, hey
Also if both deserve to die why are you always on mgtow sightes?

Unknown said...

I only recently discovered MGTOW, as in, less than a week ago. I've never had a GF, nor have I ever been laid, but I still identify as a man who wants to go his own way simply because I don't want to be a part of a society that doesn't care for me. I want to be a better man for myself, not a woman. Do I hate women? No, I find women attractive and beautiful but I don't want to end up living a life that deep down I know isn't for me but my "family"

I am pretty lucky I live in the UK because Feminism isn't as pronounced here. I've never once hated or harboured any malicious feelings towards women, I simply want to do nothing but play video games my entire life and wake up every morning with a smile on my face because I'm healthy and free. I sincerely hope there are other men who think like that, but I know the sad truth is that things sometimes get carried away.

One day I wish that men and women could just stop all the bitching, the fighting and the hating, and respect each others choices. Sadly this probably won't happen in my lifetime, but it won't stop me from proudly saying I'm a man who wants to go his own way. Hope you all have a perfect life full of things you enjoy.


Anonymous said...

It seems strange, but I am MGTOW traditionalist, in that I favor traditionalist views; and while some say the 50's are not coming back; I would argue in some ways they are already here.
By that I mean that though it is easier to see men topping the pay charts, the top is only the tip of the iceberg.
It is perhaps far easier for a woman to gain their first job and establish the career necessary as our job markets shrink.
I have noticed married men drift into support roles in families; arguably those with long term relationships.
It does show an inversion present though if only for the idea that there are other dynamics that may prove to work while traditionalism in it's patriarchal form may fail to.

Mgtow uses logical discussion like you would tease out a methodology to a psychological hypothesis. Maybe not all the men joining it have the background to so specialize and devote themselves to it's refinement; but it is being refined and underpinned regardless.

I also don't think traditionalism is strictly at odds with The MGTOW direction; nor that it is strictly as put going your own way (and hence not allowing anyone to follow you).
At it's heart MGTOW points out a bad deal for men and is simply saying you don't have to take it, your a human being.
Men are not 'superior' to women, they are different.
What I see is Tyranny, the tyranny of power.
Men had it with Patriarchy, now we have a more matriarchal society whether it's figureheads are female or not and with that Gynocentry women too have become tyrants.
I find it sad that it seems that men are 'needing' feminists to legitimize their words for mainstream traction; but under the patriarchy of traditionalism men had to 'give' women the right to vote for example.
The worst is not MGTOW becoming an ugly term; it is the misappropriation of the term equality.Now meaning homogeniety.
We can all be equal while all being different.

My point being is it's about what you want to achieve and men and women are not necessarily going to want to achieve the same things to find their balance with each other.
I for one have come to the realization that as a man I want to be a provider; existence for it's own sake is a hollow one; I'd simply much rather have something constructive of value that I can do and have that translate into a stable home life.

The fact is MGTOW has the ability to disrupt societies (primarily now because fertility rates are dropping); the reason why men are saying bring on the fall is because once none of the band aid fixes hold society together anymore it will either crumble or it will be fixed.
The living will rebuild & they will fix what broke.

It may not be perfected in one go; but it will keep failing until things are sufficiently balanced to keep working.
Men will push back hard because it's their nature, women will organize support; but will we have democracies for it to matter?
The civil man already having history to back him up to say look we tried to do the right thing; and if the civil man doesn't win no doubt the barbarian man will or of course the earth will be left a smoking crater.
Women may be able to now procreate with each other; but it requires extreme infrastructure and scientific minds & equipment; at 50/50 population with men itching for the ensuing chaos of a societal collapse.
You'll either have security under propriety in transition where our leaders will have to deal fairly with men; or there will be the mob and my bet would be on the former with current technologies developed for standard warfare.
We already have other changes coming due to AI & robotics; things may not even have to break simply because we seem more able to mobilize our great thinkers towards the less sexually influenced topic of general human irrelevance.

Pat Riarchy said...

I certainly don't want to see any collapse and burn. In fact, I don't believe this will happen.

There is another solution.

Replace females with a better model. In 2020 you can buy the most gorgeous and sexy thing you have ever seen because she will look as you want. She's faster and stronger than you. She knows more than you could hope to learn as a life time full time student. She will never nag. Never humiliate you. Never shit test you. Never hurt you. Never cheat. Never leave. Etc. All you could ever want with ZERO risk. You can create Paradise on Earth for yourself.

All you have to do is work for it.

Unknown said...

I'm just a divorced guy that woke up one day. Don't really give a fig what you call it but relationships (or lack there of) are on my terms now. If women want a good man they have to bloody earn that right.

Anonymous said...

MGTOW was a rejection of woman.

I believe LEABL is the future.

If woman don't want men, Let'em all be lesbians

It is woman who are rejecting men, let them pay the full price.

Unknown said...

I've never liked labels of any kind.

It's a funny irony that it is difficult to have a movement without labeling said movement, yet once the 'label' exists, it is difficult for the label to not become sullied by fringe elements within the movement.

I disdain fringe thinking wherever it presents itself. It tends to be characterized by narrow perspectives and oversimplified, polarized ideologies. Small ideas are for small minds, idiots cling to narrow thinking like flies cling to horse shit.

Personally, I'll just continue to do what I do and think what I think, I'm not interested in any damned label.

Alphaeus said...

"MGTOW" has no predetermined destination. What "MGTOW" has, more or less, as a matter of simple social logic, is a discreet point of origin, which is the idea of "cherchez la femme." "MGTOW" doesn't necessarily know where it's going or where it will end up; all we know is that we do not buy in to the idea of "cherchez la femme." The reason I use the French term is to emphasize how deeply and profoundly embedded in the psyche of society the idea of chasing women is. It's not easy to be "MGTOW." It not only goes against our sick sad society, it goes against the deepest parts of human reality.
What people don't seem to get is that "MGTOW" is a symptom of the demonic destruction of the human race, not a cause. "MGTOW" is what happens when a man sees that the game cannot even be played any more, thanks to what Satan and his army of winged flying monkeys have done to society.

Anonymous said...

MGTOW is the very smart way to go for many of us good men with the very awful women that are everywhere these days.

Edward said...

1. You can't create significant social change without a movement.
2. You can't create a movement if you reject labels.
3. You can't create a movement if you flee from it.
4. You can't avoid negative elements in a mass movement.
5. You can't create a movement if everybody goes their own way.
6. A movement must stand 'For Something' and 'Against Something'.
7. The movement's founders must fight to establish its culture and ideology.

Again you can't create significant social change without a movement.

So what is MGTOW really about? Is it just an ego badge, a form of virtue signalling? A bunch of men who want to say "look at me I'm a rugged individualist who doesn't give a shit and is only interested in doing my own thing"? How do you create a movement of rugged individualists who don't care and just want to do their own thing? What would be the point of that? How could that even hope to be successful?

Obviously since MGTOW was created as a men's movement it has a social not just individual purpose. So there have to be labels, cooperation and conformity. And there must be a "common purpose" beyond just doing your own thing.

Social movements are always subject to corruption, infiltration, contamination and entropy. There is no getting around that. The leaders just have to keep aligning the movement to its purpose. Particularly in the rapid growth phase, when new members must be indoctrinated into the group's ideology, aims and culture. Failure at this point is usually due to failure of leadership.

Perhaps MGTOW need to split. Or restrict its membership. Require a membership fee. Or require rite of passage/membership. Set a minimum membership age.Require knowlege of a MGTOW curriculum/ideology. Otherwise MGTOW loses meaning. If anybody can simply join, then how can you complain that the movement has been taken over by negative forces?

There needs to be a focused and committed membership. The only way to get that is if the members have skin in the game. People have to engage in a significant act to be committed to anything.