Friday, October 31, 2014

MGTOWgate, AKA "Sorry Ladies, MGTOW Isn't Binary"

There's Gamergate, Elevatorgate, Atheism+, and to continue the overuse of the word "gate," let's just call this observation I've had "MGTOWgate."

Of course there really isn't a "MGTOWgate" in the normal sense of the suffix, however I have noticed something similar happening to various MGTOW sites that parallel the concern troll attacks of the aforementioned "gate-scandals."  Specifically, a spurt of feminists and some non-feminists writing about MGTOW's and the MGTOW movement, even claiming there's a WGTOW movement.

Regardless of their individuality, their central "thesis" or argument is one of questioning the veracity and commitment of MGTOW's.  That men can't and therefore never really do "give up women completely."  Sure enough they point to the MGTOW's that have women in their lives, admit they do find women attractive, occasionally "crack" and ask a girl out, etc.  And sure enough they say, "LOOK!  LOOK!  SEE!!! THEY'RE NOT GOING THEIR OWN WAY!"  And with 100% predictability call hypocrisy on the movement, hoping to convince others it's fraudulent. 

There's just one problem ladies.

MGTOW isn't binary.  It's a spectrum

What I mean by that is that if you go your own way you don't COMPLETELY eliminate women out of your life.  It's not like one day you're chasing after women non-stop and then the next quit cold turkey ne'er to see the tatas of a woman again.  You simply re-prioritize your priorities where women are no longer a...well...priority.  ie. - they're not COMPLETELY off the list, they're just knocked down the list some.

The result is something more of a scale or a spectrum.  Yes you do have men who have truly given up on women and really don't have them in any capacity in their lives.  But the majority of them (I would surmise and have observed) are not going to pass up an easy fling, a true love of their life, or a date that happens naturally and with little effort.  The real issue is the effort men put into the pursuit of women and that is where most critics (authentic or not) in "MGTOWgate" are operating on a flawed premise.

To provide you with empirical evidence of MGTOW's being a scale and not an binary designation, consider three bits of data.

The first one is an informal survey I did with readers about what percent of their free time they spent pursuing women at 5 year intervals across their lives.  My theory was that as men got older, they tired of the chase, not to mention learned they were led on about the quality of women available in the population, thus becoming disincentived.  My hunch proved true as men spent a peak of 25% their free time at the age of 25 chasing girls and in 3 decades time spent only 2%

The second thing is the decline in the rate (or increase in the age of) marriage.  People can blame it on the recession.  People can blame it on student loans.  People can blame it on whatever they want.  The truth is since it is men that do 100% of the proposing the demand for marriage has dropped and men have statistically and empirically gone their own way at least partially.

And the third bit of data is a little anecdote from last night when I went swing dancing for the first time in nearly 6 months.  10 years ago you would have seen me and my crew out at least three nights a week asking no less than 15 girls each to dance.  Nearly half of those women would be asked out.  And as statistics would have it, it was very common several girls would be asked out by multiple guys in my crew the same night.

But not last night.

It was just me and one other buddy of mine.

I mustered up the strength to ask three girls to dance and had the intention of asking out none.

My buddy looked around, but was not inspired enough by any gal to ask them to dance (and he's single!).

He hasn't sworn off women.  And I certainly haven't either.  But the effective reality women get to face is that it's MGTOW none the less.  Interest in women was 10% of what it used to be as we were more interested in our smart phones and grabbing dinner later that night than dancing or dating.

The point is, so sorry ladies.  So so terribly sorry.  MGTOW is not like becoming a born again Christian, quitting drugs cold turkey, or joining AA.  It's not a yes or no, an either or, a 1 or 0.  It's the sad reality that men are making logical and economic choices as to how to spend their finite time, and putting women down further and further in terms of life's priorities when history and empirical data show they don't provide an adequate rate of return.  However, women are rarely kicked off the list completely.  Therefore when you see a MGTOW on a date, getting some play, or has some broad on the back of his motorcycle he isn't a fraud or a hypocrite.  He's a guy who's living his own life on his terms and STILL slaying it with the ladies.

Which is what women have always found attractive in the first place.

Remember MGTOW's.  Life is more more than just getting a motorcycle and "going."  You need to plan for the future.  Consider purchasing "Bachelor Pad Economics."  The financial bible 4 out of 5 MGTOW's swear by!


Anonymous said...

There is this belief out there that MGTOW is somehow about rejection of women or about celibacy and that belief is completely inaccurate. A MGTOW man will not turn down a quality one night stand, a quality g/f, or the love of his life. It just means he is very careful and responsible in the woman he chooses to marry and/or have children/family with; and does so, only if she is worthy of such things. He won't settle down, just to settle down because he feels lonely. And yes a MGTOW man will risk dying old and alone if it comes to that than make the mistake choosing the wrong woman.

Matt said...

Been going my own way for five years.

It saved my life.

I don't have time for drama or flakes or time dumps.

My life is my own. I will spend it how the fuck I want to spend it.

Want to compete for my time? Make yourself valuable.

Anonymous said...


i spent my time on movies, hiking, music mostly these days.

earl said...

MGTOW can range from complete rejection to seeing women as part of your life. But the thing is they aren't THE thing in life.

Men of old I feel understood this better. Some had families, some pursued science, others theology, others architecture. Now it seems we are pigeonholed into worshiping the vagina only.

GregMan said...

Of course there's a "WGTOW" movement. They're called spinsters. With cats.

Shark said...

EXCELLENT post. I'm so tired of the "You aren't a MGTOW if..." garbage going on with Sandman and AVFM's Paul Elam, but I DO NOT agree that you can call yourself a MGTOW if you're married, that's just a delusion because you're subject to the biased mistreatment under the laws, abuse by the divorce courts, and the paternalistic favoritism shown by the white knights in blue. It's like calling yourself a duck just because you can quack and, no.

Anonymous said...

Capt .. this is very hard to get across to many in the man'sphere.

They think the face of MGTOW is the 20 year old living at his parents. Total rubbish. Though he is getting an early education in GHOW.

Keep up the good work.


Anonymous said...

Capt .. this problem with understanding MGTOW is not exclusive to women. Many men in the man'sphere don't understand it either.

They tend to think the face of MGTOW is the 20(ish) year old kid living with his parents. Though he is getting a good education on GHOW.

Keep up the good work.

45 year old man and master of his own domain (i.e. GHOW)

leeholsen said...

i'm definitely one of those guys. i'm old enough to know i have and will accomplish more than the avg american by a long shot and have seen enough from women not to keep wasting my time and much thanks to the capt. and early retirement extreme; i'm fairly secure with this mindset today.

Anonymous said...

It really is a sliding scale or continuum. Boils down to resource allocation, personal freedom/your time and risk management. Marriage and LTR under your roof = not MGTOW. Sliding scale LTR FWB Harem management, Prostitution, occasional bang if it comes your way and then total avoidance if possible from business dealings to even your family/relatives. Someone else should work on these gradations so this concept MGTOW can be clearly defined.

Plump Pleasant Plumber said...

MGTOW is a rational response to painful stimuli. For me, I've learned to deal with women, just not get close. Civil insurrection, economic failure, pandemic, Islamic invasion. ...let the feminist-marxists protect themselves. Getting shot is not much fun, so I'll let snowflake find out what men were good for. Unless I'm kin or personally know the woman, I ain't doing squat. Too dangerous. Can't afford to get sued. If I came upon a drunk feral coed, I have to say I'd turn away. Let her aspirate her own vomit. Yeppers, darwinian as hell. If a moslem fanatic is chasing a known feminist(to me), let him keep chopping. I'll pop him when he's finished. Cappy, been keeping up with you for a while now, and you know that when a young woman goes feral, just keep away. Let someone else pay the freight.

Derrick Mills said...

Nice piece.

Anonymous said...

MGTOW - at the risk of being the only one left who doesn't know what this means - what does it mean? Something to do with going your own way? Being female, my opinion is similar to yours. Although I'm married, if again single, I sure wouldn't be in a hurry or be desperate to "get me a man."

Matt said...

One more thing - people portray MGTOWs as basement dwelling retards who can't get laid.

No, no, no.

Men who put women on a pedestal are social retards who don't understand women. MGTOWs are 1) men who have dated a lot of women and gotten jaded 2) Men who were previously married and witnessed firsthand the horror of marriage and divorce court 3) highly observant men who have watched from afar, seen how the game is played and want no part of it.

As for me, the bills are paid, the bank accounts are racking up savings, and I'll be spending the night with a bottle of my favorite booze.

Grizzly said...

I see it as a realization that the majority of women simply aren't worth it.

Philip Wyeth said...

After many years of being befuddled by this kind of what I thought was misdirection by liberals, I’ve come to realize it is merely a reflection of how shallow their thinking really is. Its foundation seems to be predicated on a very simple form of binary logic where yes-no, on-off scenarios play out in isolation. Therefore when you disagree with a Leftist’s solution to problem X, this computes in his mind as indicating that you do not believe the problem even exists. He can’t conceive that you might have a different, often more nuanced solution, or that the problem has a different cause altogether.

From here:

Glen Filthie said...

I am an older fart, boys, so I look at things a little different.

ALL men should go their own way and it should be one that allows you to do the things you want to do, it should allow you to respect yourself and it should include women. All you gotta do is find a woman that will go that way with you.

That eliminates the fat angry lesbians and feminists, the cold career women, and pretty much most modern Christian gals. They are going THEIR way and there is nothing in that direction for a respectable man to pursue.

A good woman is one that is going your way of her own volition...and they are out there.

Anonymous said...

I used to spend about 50% of my time on women. I would approach, make conversation and make effort. I just followed all of the other guys without thinking. It also involved an unhealthy lifestyle in smokey environments, excess noise, alcohol and more chances of violence.

After taking the about 3% of my time is spent on women and I lead a healthy lifestyle with less stress.

Read2much said...


Not here.

No woman, not now, not ever, never. Took that vow 20 years ago based simply on what women had to say.

Sometimes I get asked why I don't follow up with a woman who is showing interest. I answer truthfully. “What would I do with her?”

Anonymous said...

The most important lesson I’ve learned:

From birth till death, men will be shamed and/or encouraged to engage in institutions and activities that will bring them at most, a false sense of belonging and at worst, the complete destruction of their lives. How is this shaming and encouragement meted out? Music, movies, books, political propaganda, religious propaganda, TV, the self-deluded and by those that have a strong ideological or financial interest in leading men to their own slaughter. Most everything men are taught about being men is not only wrong, but quite often, leads them to utter destruction.

The single most important aspect of MGTOW is to NEVER EVER give a woman significant power over your life. In the past 40+ years, in the US alone, 10s upon 10s of millions of men have had their lives destroyed by giving women power over their lives. The law works for women and against men. Men must come to understand this.

The #1 way to destroy your life as a man is sign a marriage contract. If you're a breadwinning man (men are still the majority of breadwinners in marriage), in the event of divorce (on average, 1,000,000 per year), you can expect major financial damage from which you may never recover.

There are many ways in which women can destroy your life. Men need to know these ways. As time progresses and as more and more men opt out of "marriage and family", ever more misandric laws and policies will proliferate.

MGHOW for Life

Dennis Stewart said...

I think most women in this culture are abusive pigs. It is wonderful to have support in realizing today's woman should never be a priority and that finally we can see them for what they are. This culture is definately male-unfriendly and the laws against men make marriage down right dangerous.

Anonymous said...

MGTOW and happy here! Men, educate yourselves, empower yourselves, and decide if it's right for you.

Anonymous said...

Men: Be bold. Choose your own path. Find your own happiness. Don't let anyone shame or judge you. Find your inner masculinity! MGTOW!

Anonymous said...

Not to shame anyone here but half these people dont realize what a mgtow is. One guy here says you can be married and another guy used the NAWALT argument. If you're still messing around with in any capacity you are not mgtow, period! Youre more like a mgtow supporter or enthusiast. Dont be mistaken, you dudes still searching for nawalts and pussy begging are the manginas of the planet. Whats worse, is that all you poser mgtow who fuel the cock carousel with one night stands perpetuate misandry and female misbehavior. You sold out men and still do. You traded the well being of men for a jitz.

Anonymous said...

I'm not a MGTOW. I just see women as not having a positive ROI. I will occasionally date, but I will never marry.