Tuesday, July 03, 2012

The Costs of Playerhood

Roosh in his book "Day Bang" explains arguably the key ingredient to being a player.  It isn't confidence.  It isn't working out or looks.  And it isn't money.

It's failure.

It's knowing that you are going to get shot down the majority of the time and to simply keep at it until you inevitably succeed.  Oh sure, there are some things you can do to "tighten up" your game (environment selection, practice, situational awareness, working out, clothing, etc), but even Roosh admits players at the top of their game will have a maximum close rate of around 40%. 

Now, the reason I bring this up is because (hubris and arrogance aside) I was a player.  And when I was a player, my friends would always ask, "how did I do it?"  I'm not particularly tall, I'm kind of skinny, when I was at the "top" of my game I least physically fit, and for the majority of my 20's I was making less than $30,000 per year.  But sure enough pretty much every hot girl that walked into the dance scene was mine.  If there was a social event,  I would be "that short skinny guy" who brought the "Russian ballet dancer" to the party (true story).  If I wanted to and had enough forewarning, I could pretty much guarantee myself a pretty girl for a date.  The irony is of course, that's what people saw from the outside.  The finished product.  The tall drink of water on my arm.  What they didn't see was the behind the scenes action of how sausage was made and thus thought it was all puppies, chocolates and unicorns.  They didn't realize there are genuine and severe costs to being a player, costs so great it makes you quit.

First, understand the time commitment involved.  Again I reference Day Bang (though I'm sure Roosh mentions this in all of his books), where Roosh, right up front addresses the amount of time you will have to commit in order to succeed.  He does not beat around the bush, likening being a player to a sport.  You NEED to practice, regularly, everyday, 3 hours a day to get good at it.  And he's right. 

Now, did I go out and treat it like a sport?  No, but I did get to the point of being able to remove any emotion from getting shot down.  And I did get to the point to not take any personal offense or umbrage when a girl shot me down.  It requires you give up a little bit of humanity and treat it like a genuine, real and passionless game.  You almost have to get to the level of ignoring the fact the girls are fellow humans and look at them more like hurdles or benchmarks to overcome.  I never achieved 40%, maybe at best 30%.  But for all the tall drinks of water I brought into a club or a party, there were at least 7 or 8 that shot me down.

Regardless, the point is not how you need to become dispassionate about it (though that helps), it's to point out some math.  To get shot down 7-8 times just to get one date means you got to spend at least 2 hours failing before you get that 15 minutes of success.  And that's a low estimate.  The average guy is more likely to spend at least 10 hours getting one date, the majority of that time will be spent being shot down.  Consequently, unless you can remove your soul a little bit from this process, it will start to affect your personality, ego and self-esteem.  Both of these (the time commitment and the constant assailing of your ego) are costs that often go unnoticed in the sausage-making process that is known as "playerhood."

Second, say you do succeed.  Again, to the outside observer, all they see is you punching above your weight with that tall drink of water on your arm.  "See" being the key verb here.  They don't TALK to the tall drink of water.  They don't LISTEN to the tall drink of water.  All they see is her physical beauty, 95% of the time is her best and only asset. 

Until a woman has a child, gets divorced, has to support herself or goes through some other life-trial or tribulation that builds character, you can expect an inverse relationship between the looks of a woman and her personality.  The old adage - intelligence, sanity and beauty, pick two - applies here.  Out of the 200+ women I have dated (not lying) there was a DIRECT and STRONG correlation between their beauty and their insanity or lack of intelligence.

The drop dead gorgeous blond that took all the oxygen out of the air at a hangar dance I went to?

2 DUI's, 1 year of "cosmetology school" and kicked out of her parents' home, on again off again collector of welfare.

The Russian ballet dancer?

Former mail order bride of an American sergeant who abused her while they had sex to the point she was hospitalized and was thusly thereafter afraid of sex.

The hot latina that I was going to impress with tickets to the opera? (I was young and stupid)

Wasn't ready until the doors to the opera were closed and we had to wait till intermission (I did not wait till intermission).

The professional trainer?

Talked 3 hours straight.  I LITERALLY got TWO SENTENCES IN.  What did she talk about?  Her ex-boyfriend THE ENTIRE TIME.

The hot ex-girlfriend of a Minnesota Viking whose parents were also billionaires with direct family ties to the Kuomintang party of Taiwan?

Threatened suicide when I didn't buy her a soda at a gas station in St. Louis Park.

Now, I could go on (and on, and on, and on), but you get the point.  You just see some guy driving a Ferrari down the street and envy him. YOu don't see the drama and psychological BS the poor guy has to pay maintaining such a high-maintenance vehicle.

Third, speaking of costs, you still have to spend money.  This can be controlled or limited to a certain extent, but if you want to be a player you at minimum have to GO OUT.  That includes (on the very cheap end) gas to a coffee shop and at minimum $5 for coffee.  On the average end, $10 in gas, $20 in drinks for yourself, maybe even $5 in covers.  AND YOU HAVEN'T EVEN GONE OUT YET.  This is just to get into the game and start wooing potential candidates for a future date.  The dates themselves (if you follow Leykis 101) should not cost more than $40, but heck, that's what you drop on them.  That again doesn't consider ancillary expenses, let alone your time.  You prorate your time at $20 an hour, with $20 in gas and $20 on actual expenditures on your date, you're looking at total costs of at least $100 each date.  Figure a low-end player gets 4 girls a month, 48 girls a year, that's $4,800 a year ON VERY CHEAP DATES, the real figure is certainly higher. 

Now you throw all these together and what do you have?

An already impoverished 20 something blowing AT LEAST $5,000 a year on dates, not to mention committing an amount of his finite time that is equivalent to a part time job ONLY to get shot down the majority of the time and SHOULD HE SUCCEED, it is a 95% guarantee the dates will be pure psychological torture.

Now, you do that for 10 years and (not to be crass) I don't care how long the legs are, how nice the boobs are, or how great the sex is (usually pretty bad), there IS going to be a burn out rate.  I personally don't know how the likes of Roosh, Roissy, etc. do it.  In the end other aspects of life start to appeal to you. 

A quiet night on your own listening to Johnny Coltrane, playing video games, hell, even reading a book is better.  You discover working on motorcycles proves more enjoyable than dating Bambi the Drama Queen.  You discover studying a foreign language proves more intellectually rewarding than suffering another outting with Monique the Sociology Major-Turned Realtor.  You discover hanging out with your buds having a cigar will provide better life-long memories than suffering another ignorant-laced conversation about politics with Lilly the "I'm a Progressive Feminist" Liberal.

The point is, playerism and playerhood is all great and wonderful.  But there's nothing wrong with you if you decide to give it up and opt for more of a MGTOW type lifestyle.  The reason being is it's your life, not theirs.  You don't have to spend your precious few moments on this planet suffering the drama and psychoses of tall drinks of floosy.

45 comments:

beta_plus said...

What's worse is now due to the ever exploding obesity rate, you are now doing that work just to get a fattie.

Heather said...
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Anonymous said...

Thanks for this article, it's something I've been saying for a while when people start yapping about "having game."

Nice to hear it from someone who had/has it.

(As opposed to me: don't got it & don't care. Got better things to do with my limited time right now, than spend money and time doing something unproductive.)

xsplat said...

"All they see is her physical beauty, 95% of the time is her best and only asset. "

Yup.

Borepatch said...

Bastiat's Seen vs. Unseen strikes again. It would be interesting to compare some of the PUA advice to the broken windows fallacy.

beta_plus said...

Some of game is actually really nice when you are around women who are feminine, slender, and of reproductive age. Banter or flirting, of which the neg is an extreme perversion of made necessary by entitled princesses, is one of life's joys. If it wasn't for game I would not have known about it.

operatingomega said...

@beta_plus

Indeed - even more reason to embrace self-improving time in the gym.

I do love how Boomers love to criticize pursuits like the ones Cap listed (video games / leisure reading / etc) as "useless" and that "having a relationship" is worthwhile.

The dating culture they grew up with is dead for the modern 20-something. Oh how I wish I could make them understand this...

Anonymous said...

Interesting article. For the same amount of money he could have gotten well laid with a pretty, young part time hooker. The article is a very good reason for legal prostitution.

van Rooinek said...

It requires you give up a little bit of humanity and treat it like a genuine, real and passionless game. You almost have to get to the level of ignoring the fact the girls are fellow humans and look at them more like hurdles or benchmarks to overcome

Sad to say, as a celibate, virgin-til-marrriage, nonplayer, earnestly seeking a good Christian wife, I had to get to the same point. The endless treadmill of baseless rejection was so soul destroying, that to avoid ending up suicidally depressed, eventually I just had to start looking at women as a prey-species to be dispassionately studied, tracked, and hunted, rather than as fellow human beings worthy of emotional investment.

Of course I was fortunately able to turn off that coldbloodedness once I finally found and married a good one. But it's sad that the runaway hypergamy, the impossible expectations, and the spiteful nuclear rejections of "Christian" women were so bad, that a Christian man almost has to "turn off" his soul til his marriage quest is over.

daniel_ream said...

Now I'm curious why a mesothelioma awareness blogger wants to talk to the illustrious captain. Especially about PUA burnout.

Stretch said...

The big-busted redhead with a Mensa IQ who would do ANYTHING sexual? Manic-Depressive with suicidal tendencies.

The 6' willowy brunette pulling down 6 figure salary (in 1981) and on first name basis with maître d's from Capital Hill to Georgetown? Also on first name basis with vice & drug cops in 6 jurisdictions in 2 states.

Ya, it's not always as good as it seems.

Dave said...

As more men learn game, there's a tragedy-of-the-commons effect. If you sent your resume to every single ad on monster.com without even reading them, would that improve your chances of getting hired? Probably. What if everyone did it? Pretty soon, the only jobs on Monster would be the "work at home for $10,000/month" kind.

The key to finding good jobs and good marriage partners has always been a strong social network. To avoid filling up with losers or being pillaged by scammers, the best networks must maintain the highest barriers to entry.

If you think "networking" means having lots of Facebook friends, try converting to Judaism sometime. Better yet, join the Druze, who haven't accepted a new member since AD 1043. If you're born into that network, you'll have no trouble finding a young, beautiful, feminine wife.

JC said...

I always figured it was like that. There's a great episode of King of the Hill that shows this off perfectly.

Bobby is asking for advice on how to woo the girls at school, so naturally he seeks out Boomhauer, who is a hit with the ladies. Boomhauer takes him to some store and he just starts asking women out on dates and getting shot down. Bobby can't believe that's what Boomhauer actually does.

Joe Bar said...

Working on motorcycles better than dating? Hell I knew that when I was 17. Didn't get laid until I was 22, and she chased me. Guess I won.

Dave said...

This is not the first time and place in history that most women gained enough independence that they could afford to reject most men. Each time this happened (I'm thinking of Rome in the fourth century and Baghdad in the ninth), the rejected men eventually said "fsck it", went their own way, and let foreign invaders come rape all the women. If you're not good enough to be any woman's husband or father, why risk your life to protect them?

Apollo said...

Good stuff. Far too often, this aspect of game is glossed over by the faithful. The fact that you are making a trade off of your time, money, energy and psychological health to get women is never mentioned by most PUAs, and it never even seems to occur to them that some might consider this too high a price to pay. This cost is definitely something a man should consider before "investing" in learning game and getting women.

Anonymous said...

there was a DIRECT and STRONG correlation between their beauty and their insanity or lack of intelligence.

The bad news is that the ugly ones are crazy, too -- because they have been embittered by a lifetime of never being looked at or asked out.

James Wolfe said...

Even if you're only interested in dating or looking for a long term relationship you still have to play the game. Just being around women subjects you to the game, whether you're dating them or not. My sister is a loser that jumps from one man to another. When my mom was still alive she had to take care of all my sister's mistakes, hiding them from dad, making them go away, and when she died my dad had to take over bailing her out. And now that they are both gone she expects me to be there for her and I've already got enough crap to deal with myself. I've got two kids and a house to take care of by myself and I don't have time to deal with someone else's mistakes and poor choices.

Women in the work force are no better. They climb on your back to move up the corporate ladder, then act all sweet and nice to you so you'll help them with their projects, then they throw you under the bus when they're done with you. And once you're in a relationship you constantly have to play the Let's Get Along Game where you have to put up with their bad moods, listen to how much harder their life is than yours, get nagged about house work, and because you thought you were doing the right thing by being nice and listening to them they lose all respect for you and run off with some bad boy that treats them like crap.

Whether you're a player or just playing the game the results are the same. Eventually you burn out and decide going your own way is the only real choice. I'd love to be in a relationship with a woman who appreciates me for being me, who is glad that I'm there to help out, who likes to be treated special and treats me nice in return, but all women seem to want these days is some excuse to be a martyr and have someone to kick around and complain about. They have a relationship that's great, that's stable, that's comfortable, and they're bored and want to run off with the guy they read about in their crotch novels. Someone to feel all tingly about. Ugh! Let them have their imaginary friends and their cats. I'm going to go build something.

Briol said...

One of your best posts, CC. Actually saved it for future reference. Simple words, so much wisdom. Even if I'm not in the intended demographic, I've to get your book.

I'm pretty much a MGHOW. I date on the side when it's economically viable (low time/emotional energy/money investment), but as soon as I get a whiff of neurosis or bitchiness, they can take a hike, regardless of how attractive they are.

Roissy and Roosh have made the PUA/Game lifestyle the fulcrum of their existence, evidently, and good for them. Game is an art. It's no different from someone who makes, say, music the fulcrum of his existence and practices 4 hours per day. He knows he'll hit plenty of bum notes and only 1 out of 10 songs will come out right, but that's how you get better. In the world of dating the bum notes are the neurotic females.

All the attractive women I've dated or at least talked to were a roiling mass of neuroses, in fact. I used to think that the younger they were, the less chance of damage, but that's not the case anymore. If it's not a dysfunctional family, it's the media injecting pure shit inside their brains. Seriously, I was chatting with a 20-year-old yesterday and as soon as I shared my views on feminism and countered every single argument she threw at me, she curtly blurted "Men always say the same things!", disconnected immediately and disappeared - that is, blocked me. When cornered, they regress to childlike behavior, cover their ears and go "nanananananaana I CAN'T HEAR YOU!"

If dealing with such tomfoolery regularly is the price I have to pay to get the occasional lay, just give me my X-Box, my pals, and leave me alone.

van Rooinek said...

This is not the first time and place in history that most women gained enough independence that they could afford to reject most men. Each time this happened (I'm thinking of Rome in the fourth century and Baghdad in the ninth), the rejected men eventually said "fsck it", went their own way, and let foreign invaders come rape all the women. If you're not good enough to be any woman's husband or father, why risk your life to protect them?

That's an EXTRAORDINARILY FUCKING GOOD point. In a society where a man is respected, where one woman gladly marries him and other women treat him with honor, he's highly motivated to defend those women. In a society where most women treat most men like shit -- modern America generally, and the modern American Efagelical "Church" most especially... why bother? Let 'em get hauled off by Vikings, they deserve it. Indeed, there's a certain incentive there, to JOIN the Vikings....

Jolly Rauncher said...

You effectively elucidated in a well written treatise of the cost-benefit analysis I ran and decided not to even line up to the starting line.

I'm in my mid 20s and can maybe say I've had 2 or 3 dates, zero lays. Getting them was bad enough, it's as if I have to sell a part of myself to the devil to do that constantly.

Herb said...

You NEED to practice, regularly, everyday, 3 hours a day to get good at it. And he's right.

Well, that describes pretty much any skill: running triathlons, playing guitar, computer programming even reffing a D&D game. You need consistent practice over time and you have to make that a priority.

That's where game failed for me. What does the typical modern American woman bring to the table to make putting the same effort I put into my music or my profession (computer programming and mathematics) into her worth while.

I'm still waiting for all those independent and challenging career woman who think men need to man up to answer that one.

beta_plus said...

@ Apollo

Excellent point. Roosh was the first PUA guru that I have read who actively acknowledged just how much work it is. If you don't have the time and financial resources, it is not a viable option.

Nathan said...

Thank you

James Wolfe said...

I can totally agree with herb. From my experience in order to make a relationship work it seems that I must put in 75 to 80% of the effort for only a 20 to 25% return. That's a 50% loss in my mind. A terrible investment. My car depreciates less than that and I get far more utility from it. I invest in my home and I get to enjoy it for years. If I invest all my sweat equity in a woman the good will that's generated only lasts a few hours then it's back to pulling teeth. There's no point in even doing the cost benefit analysis.

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Anonymous said...

Amazing insight Captain. As a young guy who has long wanted to adopt the player lifestyle, I too have been forced to stop and re-evaluate on numerous occasions when faced with such steep opportunity and financial costs.

If your goal is to slay a lot of hot girls, working on your fame/money, or even straight-up expatting, are probably a much better use of your time and resources than the telemarketing-esque gaming grind.

Hell, even telemarketing isn't as bad. At least that's (almost) free.

Anonymous said...

$5000? You can get a Realdoll for that kind of money, and that'll last years. It's much more reliable too, no nagging. And just like a real woman, it can't cook.

Andrea said...

This is a description of what happens when people stop searching for a higher calling on their lives. You end up trolling for s*x, which proves to (no s*** sherlock!!) not be worth it with someone you neither know nor like, merely looks hot when you walk in the door to a party.

You can of course, seek out the "satisfaction" of a prostitute, but I'm reminded of C.S. Lewis and the Screwtape Letters: it's a formula for "an ever increasing craving for an ever diminishing pleasure."

Good luck with that.

Anonymous said...

It does depend on natural ability. I've never been into it, but two men I have known did it fairly easily. One would actually be propositioned by girls. The other, Zee, even when he was in his late 50s would go into the student bar (he was a prof) and just ask one girl after another if she wanted to f**k. It might take him ten tries, but he was rarely unsuccessful.

He did on occasion take much more time with a woman. He had a long string of ex's, most of whom were on good terms with him and with the others. For his funeral (car accident) one ex went to the local mental institution, checked another ex out for a few hours. THey both attended then the first took the second back to the institution.

"Expert" Tom said...

Accurate post every young man should read, although using the "sausage-making process" analogy in this context made me a little uncomfortable.

Cheers!

scf said...

This post is absolutely true.

It's all about failure, effort and confidence. It's also about charm - you need to be able to chit-chat and hopefully be funny from time to time. You don't have to be the greatest conversationalist, but you do have to be able to strike up a decent conversation and keep it going.

The part about the inverse relationship between looks and personality is absolutely true as well.

Robert of Ottawa said...

The majority of people are non-players because they fear the failure; thereabye never making the attempt.

A player learns that a few scares are a mark of experience and is not afraid of getting burned because they have erased the emotional connection to failure.

Perhaps, Cappy, you should become a motivational speaker :-)

Robert of Ottawa said...

Andrea, I disagree. An agreable hour spent with a professional woman is very well worth it ... think of it as a physical and relaxing massage. For sure, it's a trade that both people walk away smiling, but also, a quality lady and a gentleman client can actually ... yes you are skeptical ..pass a pleasurable, intimate time.

j said...

While I am far too ancient to have had "game" in the modern sense, I always found that picking the prettiest girl and the room and speaking with her in a polite way seemed to work quite well. Now, it would not get you laid that night (usually) but it would set the scene for later in the week.

Plus the "talking" thing let you weed out the crazy and the clingy.

Of course I struck out regularly; but would often see the girl again and make progress.

The key part about game is that it is designed to give beta males alpha outcomes. This is not likely to work out well for the betas because a date or two later any pretty, intelligent woman will realize she's stuck herself with a dud...then he'll call her crazy. 'Cause that's what betas do.

Anonymous said...

I have a few issues with your premise.

1) Everyone is crazy in some way - The key in dating is to find someone who is crazy in your way. If you like riding a bicycle for 6 hours a day, you'll need to find someone who finds a little bicycle jockey type body attractive. If you like riding motorcycles find a girl that doesn't mind the fear of going 120 mph on the back of a bike totally out of control. If you like f***ing and punching find someone who likes physical abuse.


2) People who are fun to date tend to date people who are having fun. If you go to a bar without the intention of meeting someone but to have a great time, you'll be shooting positive happy energy (sorry to sound like a hippy) out of your eyeholes. People who are fun, and have fun seek out these people. Be one of these people and you will be constantly bombarded by people trying to get with you... this explains why you'll get tonnes of offers when you're in a happy relationship. If you look relaxed and satisfied, people who like being relaxed and satisfied will be attracted to you.

Knowing these 2 things allows a man to be an alpha. Going out looking for tail means you're always following, never in the lead, never in charge. Do what you want and have fun doing it and you'll get chased.

I've been chased by models, actresses, lady-engineers, school teachers and an olymic athlete (beach volleyball ftw), all because I've been the one in the room having more fun than anyone else.

Anonymous said...

Andrea is right:

How sad it is that people spend so much chasing a facsimilie of happiness when bona-fide happiness is so readily available with the right attitude.

Anonymous said...

'If your goal is to slay a lot of hot girls, working on your fame/money, or even straight-up expatting, are probably a much better use of your time and resources than the telemarketing-esque gaming grind.'

There are intrinsic skills which can only be learned through experience, which the PUA path can give you.

Straight sugar daddies get rolled, rinsed and cuckolded if they don't have a solid grounding in female psychology.

There are so many horror stories from expats losing their cash and getting their hearts broken because they don't have street smarts re: women.

Same with the sugar daddies who pay through the nose for company that the young PUA is doing for free (and in some cases making use of the cash and toys originally given to the sugar baby).

There is opportunity cost in terms of money and emotions if you eschew game and go straight for wealth as an attractor.

Anonymous said...

'If your goal is to slay a lot of hot girls, working on your fame/money, or even straight-up expatting, are probably a much better use of your time and resources than the telemarketing-esque gaming grind.'

There are intrinsic skills which can only be learned through experience, which the PUA path can give you.

Straight sugar daddies get rolled, rinsed and cuckolded if they don't have a solid grounding in female psychology.

There are so many horror stories from expats losing their cash and getting their hearts broken because they don't have street smarts re: women.

Same with the sugar daddies who pay through the nose for company that the young PUA is doing for free (and in some cases making use of the cash and toys originally given to the sugar baby).

There is opportunity cost in terms of money and emotions if you eschew game and go straight for wealth as an attractor.

Jake said...

There's a different kind of game past that. Real inner focus, going for quality over quantity. Picking out the ones worth dating a few months.

That or I'm just lazy

Anonymous said...

@ J

Good point. Guys only call girls "crazy" if they're bitter betas.The stalking, threats of suicide, destruction of property, the slashed tires, the lies to the police... have NOTHING to do with it. Nope. It's just beta bitterness.

English Teacher X said...

Good stuff; thought you kind of glossed over the part about how you have to stop caring to succeed. That was my biggest problem -- the less I cared, the more I succeeded. But since I didn't care anymore, I found I preferred staying home and watching THE SHIELD.

Andrea said...

@ Robert of Ottawa
I don't doubt you can spend a pleasurable hour with a prostitute. But here CS Lewis comes in handy again:

"We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us, like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies in a slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily pleased.”

Anonymous said...

awesome article