It is now pretty universally understood that the single worst thing you can do to torpedo your chances with the ladies is...
be a nice guy.
If there is progress to be pointed to in The Manosphere, that is it. We have pretty much made it basic, introductory knowledge to all men of all ages that you do NOT be the nice guy.
But what is not so easy is doing the opposite. Being a "jerk" or being an "asshole" to succeed with the ladies and let me explain why.
Chances are you really ARE a nice guy.
Understand nobody sets out and says, "I'm going to be a jerk" or "I'm going to be a mean guy!" Most guys want to be nice people because it is being nice that gets you quality friends, keeps your enemies to a minimum, and increases your standard of living. In every social, psychological, political, familial and business circle it pays to be nice. Unfortunately, however, in this one circle (western civilization romantic) you have to change your game, change your personality and do the opposite. And it is difficult to do when your core being, your true personality is a nice one.
I've seen this not just in my own exploits, but recently hanging out with a buddy of mine. Even at the age of 42 he still catches himself unconsciously defaulting to "nice guy mode." He has to constantly keep his guard up, at least in the initial stages of courting a girl. And when it comes time to actually treating a girl poorly he's rued on multiple occasions,
"Geez, I just can't do it. It's not in my nature. I just don't like treating girls poorly."
Unfortunately (or fortunately) he realizes that it's the only option he has if he wants any measure of success, and thus he fakes it through anyway.
Regardless, the point of this post is one of morality versus that of practicality. I understand it isn't fun being mean. I understand it goes against your nature to not call a girl back and play stupid games. I understand you don't want to hurt people's feelings. I get that, we've all been there. But unfortunatley the rules of the game are such that you HAVE to be a jerk. You have to be aloof. You have to be an ass. This of course does not eliminate that "twinge" of guilt or regret as you purposely cancel on your date 2 hours before its start, but the fact these ARE the rules and women respond to it moot any moral qualms you might have.
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It's not about being "mean". It's about a man doing what he needs and wants for himself. If two hours before a date the man has something else that has to be done, he must do it. It's not mean or rude. If he doesn't want to buy a girl a drink, he simply doesn't. It's not mean. She might think it's mean, but that's pretty much irrelevant. Not calling a girl when he is busy is not mean.
It's not about being a jerk or an ass. It's most definitely not about her definition of mean. It's about what the man wants and what the man is willing to do. One can set all of these boundaries and be a perfectly respectful man.
Also, the etymology of the word *nice* is foolish. Your friend does not wish to be a fool. He needs to shoot for what he deems to be respectful to others. Not what he thinks they expect.
Probably a reason a % of guys just don't bother playing the game anymore. (Esp. after a certain age.)
Be mean, be an ass? ...or Learn a new skill, play video games with my friends.
Option A Leaves you with more work, with limited chance of pay-off.
Option B gives you instant reward.
If anything it's another wonderful consequence of feminism.
I'll admit when it comes to women...I don't like being a loudmouth egotistical jerk or offending women anymore than I liked being a nice guy.
When it takes going the route of being a jerk to even be noticed because women have become emotional vampires...what else are you going to do??
Two routes...don't be yourself and have womanly companionship. Or be yourself and be prepared to get ignored. I'm dangerously close to choosing the later.
So glad I'm not young and single. I would be very lonely in this world.
It's pretty cut-throat out there now, especially for the younger guys. A lot of girls will put a guy in the "desperate loser" category if he so much as asks her to go on a date with him. I guess when a girl has already put out for men she's just met at parties and bars, she'll think that any guy who tries to get buy her dinner and get to know her first is either really naive or a total loser.
I know I am going against your basic manosphere tenet when I say this, but I find being a jerk is totally unnecessary. I speak from experience, I've bedded dozens of hot women, and I think being nice does not harm your chances...
SO LONG AS you set clear standards and boundaries and don't mind being mean when you enforce them. Women actually want you to be nice, but they don't want you to be a pussy. So if you're nice until they cross the line, and then when they cross the line you tell them so and don't act like a pliant little bitch, women will know you are a MAN with a spine but will also appreciate the gentleness of your nature.
Be a gentle man. Those two words each modify the other.
Be a gentleman. You don't see James Bond or George Clooney gratuitously insulting women to get laid. You don't need to either.
I USED to run up against this frequently. Gentlemanly conduct in particular, and any sort of courtesy in general, can be experienced by a woman as supplication - opening the passenger door for her becomes "can I give you a foot massage?"
Fortunately it is no longer a problem for me. There are several reasons, the simplest being that I have gotten to the point where I filter so little, and express so much of my natural contempt for people's behavior in both humorous and blunt tones - including the behavior of cute girls I am thinking about having sex with, and this is key - that any 'nice' slip ups on my part only amount to pull push or softening of the edges.
When your reputation as an 'asshole' precedes you... and the Feministas spit out mouthfuls of organic tea and shake with rage the moment you walk in the room, and the outstandingly beautiful young woman whom no one ever says a cross word to begins to realize that she is not immune from your high standards... THEN any nice guy stuff you do just serves to reinforce women's perception that you are a man of character: rare and worth pursuing.
So I advise not to worry about restraining your nice guy tendencies. Eventually you will need them. Work on being brutally honest and upfront to balance it out, and take concrete steps to get to a place where you simply do not care about your relations with any one particular woman (Aside from immediate family.)
I recently blew any possibility of any relations - temporary of otherwise - with a woman when she revealed to me that her career involved teaching schoolchildren to value 'whole' and locally grown foods in their diet. I did not say a word but I am certain that my disgust and contempt showed clearly on my face, if only for an instant. And an instant, a shadow or flicker of emotion is all they need. The conversation, and our flirtation, died a painful death and never recovered despite my best game. My downfall was that I CARED. Not for her, but because I WANTED for her to turn out to be someone that I could like, at least somewhat. I was disappointed and she took it personally - because I did. If I really didn't care, then I could have made fun of her religious proselytizing on behalf of cabbages and beets and been further on the way to a nice comfortable one night stand.
The only way to get to not caring is to have too many options to be able to pursue them all, and that situation takes work to get to, or a large inheritance. So go out there and find lots of women to be 'nice' to. The more you meet, the less your slip ups will matter, and the less they will happen, or cause you to suffer.
There is something VERY wrong with women today if being nice gets you the opposite of what you should get...it isn't so much the women themselves as the culture they're surrounded by.
"There is something VERY wrong with women today if being nice gets you the opposite of what you should get...it isn't so much the women themselves as the culture they're surrounded by."
But whose choices shape the dating culture? Who are the ones that have power in the SMP and are in demand? Who is "the prize"? Who makes the rules?
"It's pretty cut-throat out there now, especially for the younger guys. A lot of girls will put a guy in the "desperate loser" category if he so much as asks her to go on a date with him. I guess when a girl has already put out for men she's just met at parties and bars, she'll think that any guy who tries to get buy her dinner and get to know her first is either really naive or a total loser."
And how is this a bad thing?
Men no longer have to waste money on wooing some stupid bitch, and can just meet her, game her, and fuck her.
Fuck all of that traditional bullshit, wine and roses and dinner and all that gay shit.
Feminism actually liberated MEN. Never forget that.
This makes me wonder, is it a matter of being mean, or is it that "being nice" has gotten confused with being a doormat? What if for a guy it's really just a matter of knowing what it is that you value in life, and then pursuing it without apology? That will no doubt come across as "mean" to people who are accustomed to being showered with participation trophies. Maybe that will get you some of such a girl's time, but, meh... Who wants it?
While you focus on economics and leave the work mostly to people like Roissy/Heartiste. It would be cool if you define better what's nice and mean exactly. You gave a hint to mean-ness by writing about calling a date 2 hours before, but what context and rule of thumbs of girls matters too (or maybe not, you tell me).
Yet, nice seems to range from being a total doormat to just saying hello. While, being mean range from teasing to killing people.
What's too nice? What's actually "mean"? The nuance that you wouldn't do to a guy but have to do to a girl.
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